Is Freefall Proof of Controlled Demolition?

[Johan]

Larry Silverstein, owner (leaseholder) of the World Trade Center, has sued the airlines, the insurance companies, Boeing, and the Port Authority of Massachusetts.  But Silverstein has NOT sued the designers of WTC 7.  So if normal office fires could cause a 47 story skyscraper to come crashing to the ground, why didn't Silverstein sue the the architects who designed the unsafe building?  Think about it.

I don't have to think about it. This is because anyone with at least half a brain knows that the primary factors which determine who gets sued after something happens are not who was responsible for the thing that happened, but rather who among those involved or associated in any way with the thing that happened have the most money and/or are most likely to viewed as culpable by a jury.

This is why flight instructors don't get sued, but Cessna does after some jackass kills himself by making stupid choices in an airplane. The flight instructor is the one who is supposed to teach the student not to make stupid choices which might get you killed, while Cessna has absolutely nothing to do with that. But Cessna has money and the flight instructor typically doesn't have two dimes to rub together. So Cessna is the one that typically gets sued, not the flight instructor.

Now obviously the designer of the World Trade Center most likely has a couple of dimes to rub together. But they probably don't have Boeing level money. And they likely don't have the level of public (and therefore jury) hatred that a corporate entity like Boeing would. So who is the smart lawyer going to sue? The smart lawyer is going to sue the one with the deepest pockets that the jury is most likely to hate. The designers of the building don't fit that description. In a word, DUH!

So as I've said above, anyone with at least half a brain understands this basic concept. Which begs the question, do you have at least half a brain son? Well do ya?

[Moralnihilist]

I like it how AMF uses his "Which is more believable" ploy, and acts shocked —shocked, I say— and appalled when people answer, yes, the official story is more believable than his grand conspiracy tangle. I also like it how AMF likes to think that the AQ hijackers never saw a plane before and thinks that they work through black magic with his "cave dweller" rhetoric, when in fact every one of the hijackers and Osama Bin Laden himself all came from Saudi Arabia, which is by any technological standard a fully modern country.

What truly amazes me is the fact that AMF and other 9/11 "truthers" seem to think that it would be easier to believe that there is some vast governmental conspiracy or some secret plot by foreign governments to sneak in high grade explosives into a BUSY office building in one of the busiest cities in the world(remember folks New York is the city that never sleeps) not only did they manage to sneak in the explosives into the office building(also a tourist destination), but they ALSO managed to rig this building for demolition(a process that takes weeks if not months to do and takes MILES of det cord) without ONE person going "what the fuck is this shit?" or taking one picture of the work going on. Not only did all of this "supposedly" happen but THEN they managed to light off a controlled demolition with the entire world watching and managed to hide ALL of the det cord flashes AND brought the building down flat(something that controlled demolition does not do because physics). NOT ONLY was all this done but not ONE person, document, or computer file has survived to prove ANY of this to be remotely possible. ALL of this was supposedly done right in the same building that the USSS(Secret Service) and 10+ EOD's had an office that was occupied 24/7...

OR...

Is it more believable that 19(or whatever) asshats flew planes into the building and the resulting explosion and fire caused enough damage to cause the building to fail?

[stromboli]

I like it how AMF uses his "Which is more believable" ploy, and acts shocked —shocked, I say— and appalled when people answer, yes, the official story is more believable than his grand conspiracy tangle. I also like it how AMF likes to think that the AQ hijackers never saw a plane before and thinks that they work through black magic with his "cave dweller" rhetoric, when in fact every one of the hijackers and Osama Bin Laden himself all came from Saudi Arabia, which is by any technological standard a fully modern country.

What truly amazes me is the fact that AMF and other 9/11 "truthers" seem to think that it would be easier to believe that there is some vast governmental conspiracy or some secret plot by foreign governments to sneak in high grade explosives into a BUSY office building in one of the busiest cities in the world(remember folks New York is the city that never sleeps) not only did they manage to sneak in the explosives into the office building(also a tourist destination), but they ALSO managed to rig this building for demolition(a process that takes weeks if not months to do and takes MILES of det cord) without ONE person going "what the fuck is this shit?" or taking one picture of the work going on. Not only did all of this "supposedly" happen but THEN they managed to light off a controlled demolition with the entire world watching and managed to hide ALL of the det cord flashes AND brought the building down flat(something that controlled demolition does not do because physics). NOT ONLY was all this done but not ONE person, document, or computer file has survived to prove ANY of this to be remotely possible. ALL of this was supposedly done right in the same building that the USSS(Secret Service) and 10+ EOD's had an office that was occupied 24/7...

OR...

Is it more believable that 19(or whatever) asshats flew planes into the building and the resulting explosion and fire caused enough damage to cause the building to fail?

Right, which is basically what I said here several times. Dude seriously doesn't get it.

[AllPurposeAtheist]

This conspiracy is old so it's my sworn duty to introduce you to a new and improved conspiracy (actually it's not new, but could be here) so without further fanfare from the Rachel Maddow show.. ABIOTIC OIL! //http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/02/22/1279295/-This-week-in-science-Planet-of-Ignorance
So here's what happened,  the NAZIS discovered that petroleum isn't really made from decayed plants and animals,  but is made deep within the earth in UNLIMITED supplies! F..ff...fff...fffffuck! Gasoline should be a penny a gallon IF THAT!

You can thank me for the astonishing revelation later.  :-$

[stromboli]

Yeah, I saw this on Maddow. This guy is a corker. Scares me he has a following.

[the_antithesis]

Think about it.

Why should I?

You obviously didn't.

[AllPurposeAtheist]

Think about it.

Why should I?

You obviously didn't.

Pssssst.. mofo.. Two words: abiotic oil.  :-$
It's pretty clear by now the benevolent guys at the WTC were about to tell the truth about abiotic oil and the government had to silence them.  :shock:

[AtheistMoFo]

"Resistance to information that substantially challenges our worldview, we find, is the rule rather than the exception." -- Earl Staelin, J.D.

(Here comes another long post -- all you mutant teenage ninja hooligans with short attention spans may be excused.)

Despite the shock and awe of September 11, 2001, as the days and weeks and months went by, indications that it was a false flag operation became clearer and clearer.  First it was all of those little clues.  Like the passport falling to the ground, which I admit is a possibility as Thump pointed out, but still a long shot in any case.  

And the Arabic language flight instruction manuals, Korans, and fuel calculators carelessly left behind in a parked car.  Not totally unthinkable, but highly unlikely in any case.

Hani Hanjour, first time in the pilot seat of a real multi-jet (any jet) passenger liner executing an expert maneuver.  (Once more it is theoretically possible but highly unlikely.)  Government agents confiscate all private surveillance videos of the plane approaching and hitting the Pentagon, which are never to be seen again.  

Five frames of a Pentagon video released to the public, the rest never to be seen by the general public, despite FOIA.

Three out of four flight data recorders and three out of four cockpit voice recorders vaporized, and data from the surviving recorders mostly classified as secret.

Neither the president or the national security advisor could anticipate hijacked planes being used as weapons and flying them into buildings, except that the NORAD just happed to be conducting drills on that exact day at that exact time based on that exact scenario.

NORAD either stands down, or the $400,000,000,000 spent annually on defence turned out to be a gigantic waste of money.

The mastermind and all of the hijackers positively identified in less than 48 hours despite the intelligence community never saw it coming until it happened.

Wars waged exactly as described in the PNAC wish-list document.

The march toward Fascism in the United States picks it's up pace exponentially as Constitutional provisions are violated one after another.

Destruction of evidence and the biggest coverup the world has ever known.  Most people do not even know about 7 WTC, even though 19 out of 20 architects and engineers who do know and have examined the evidence believe it was controlled demolition.

The man convicted in the media of masterminding the most heinous crime of the millennium is never indicted for his crime because the FBI did not have enough evidence to seek an indictment.  Then he is executed (mob style) nonetheless, even while Afghani teenage goat herder boys are held in U.S. torture facilities for a decade so that any information in their heads can be extracted through torture techniques.

... AND THE SMOKING GUN, instead of being in the form of a mushroom cloud, it comes in the form of free-fall of 7 WTC proved beyond a reasonable doubt (except to a few proponents of the Josephpalazzian Theory).

Despite all this, for many people, it is more reasonable to believe the above impossibility and all the improbabilities rather than the much simpler explanation that greedy nefarious (wo)men in high ranking positions of industry, government, and military in New York, DC, and Langley nudged the conspiracy along.

Why do people believe this O.C.T. crap?  Well, to the christians and jews and catholics in the United States, it is because the muslims are such evil villainous scumbags.  And to many of the atheists who haunt this forum, it is because ALL theists are evil villainous scumbags.  MoFo agree that many (not all) theists really are evil villainous scumbags.  But there are also evil villainous scumbags atheists, too.  Religion is no more than a pawn in this particular chess game.  Or maybe a little more than a pawn, maybe like a knight or a bishop perhaps.  (Yes, a bishop, indeed.  No pun intended.)

The answer lies in the opening line of this post.

To put it all into perspective, here is psychologist Frances Shure:
"...fear is the emotion that underlies most of the negative reactions toward 9/11 skeptics' information: fear of receiving information that will turn our world upside down, fear of being overwhelmed by our own emotions, fear of psychological deterioration, fear our life will have to change, fear we'll discover that the world is not a safe place, fear that our reputation will be tarnished or that we'll lose our jobs, fear of being shunned or banished by friends and family, and fear of looking like a fool because we bought the official account so thoroughly."

Thank you Frances.
Ramen.

Good night, Mrs. Calabash, wherever you are.

[Sargon The Grape]

I see someone has quite the unshakable fantasy complex. Now if we've all had our fill of fun with this guy:

[josephpalazzo]

Right, which is basically what I said here several times. Dude seriously doesn't get it.

The dude in question has a hard time to deal with a body falling under gravity will pick up kinetic energy and can really break stuff along the way. Even a 5 year old can understand that. Worse, according to that dude, I've just invented a new theory. Go figure.

[Moralnihilist]

Right, which is basically what I said here several times. Dude seriously doesn't get it.

The dude in question has a hard time to deal with a body falling under gravity will pick up kinetic energy and can really break stuff along the way. Even a 5 year old can understand that. Worse, according to that dude, I've just invented a new theory. Go figure.

Even worse, this guy is posting this level of delusional bullshit on a forum with an explosives expert WHO WAS STATIONED THERE, who has disproven his bullshit theory

[josephpalazzo]

Right, which is basically what I said here several times. Dude seriously doesn't get it.

The dude in question has a hard time to deal with a body falling under gravity will pick up kinetic energy and can really break stuff along the way. Even a 5 year old can understand that. Worse, according to that dude, I've just invented a new theory. Go figure.

Even worse, this guy is posting this level of delusional bullshit on a forum with an explosives expert WHO WAS STATIONED THERE, who has disproven his bullshit theory

I guess we all have our favorite horror story with this dude.  

[AtheistMoFo]

What truly amazes me is the fact that AMF and other 9/11 "truthers" seem to think that it would be easier to believe that there is some vast governmental conspiracy or some secret plot by foreign governments to sneak in high grade explosives into a BUSY office building in one of the busiest cities in the world(remember folks New York is the city that never sleeps) not only did they manage to sneak in the explosives into the office building(also a tourist destination)...

Round and round we go.  Another "government conspiracy" denier crashes the party.

Although government conspiracy could be considered a related topic, it is not really the point here.  The central issue is whether or not 7 WTC came down due to controlled demolition (my hypothesis and minority opinion) or whether it came down due to normal office fires (NIST's hypothesis, majority opinion), or if there was some other reason (several alternative theories have been mentioned).  So the big question is whether or not freefall is possible when there is structural material posing resistance.  My contention is that any falling object will fall more slowly than the rate of gravity when there is structural material offering resistance.  Pysicist Josephpalazzo PhD. and many others here insist that a falling object can accelerate at the rate of gravity even when it is falling through the path of greatest resistance.  And further, that is exactly what happened on September 11, 2001.

As a subset of the above argument, we are also discussing (I use the term "discuss" quite loosely) whether or not only muslim terrorists could have been so egregious as to kill thousands of people or whether jew, christian, other theist and (possibly) atheist terrorists might have also been among the scoundrels who caused the carnage.  The majority opinion seems to be that although jews, christians, and other theists sometimes do batshit crazy stuff, and jews especailly have a track record of doing batshit crazy stuff, only batshit crazy muslims are capable of anything of this magnitude.  The minority opinion is that you do not necessarily have to be muslim to be so barbarous.

If you want to debate whether or not there was a government conspiracy, why not take your discussion elsewhere?  All it really does is obscure the central issue.

[Hakurei Reimu]

What truly amazes me is the fact that AMF and other 9/11 "truthers" seem to think that it would be easier to believe that there is some vast governmental conspiracy or some secret plot by foreign governments to sneak in high grade explosives into a BUSY office building in one of the busiest cities in the world(remember folks New York is the city that never sleeps) not only did they manage to sneak in the explosives into the office building(also a tourist destination), but they ALSO managed to rig this building for demolition(a process that takes weeks if not months to do and takes MILES of det cord) without ONE person going "what the fuck is this shit?" or taking one picture of the work going on.

Or catch a glimpse of one of the charges saying "DANGER! EXPLOSIVE" and the worker didn't immediately go

Not only did all of this "supposedly" happen but THEN they managed to light off a controlled demolition with the entire world watching and managed to hide ALL of the det cord flashes AND brought the building down flat(something that controlled demolition does not do because physics).

Or that any of that elaborate setup survived the fire and physical insult of a super-skyscraper raining debris right next to it. You'd think that whoever set that up was facepalming and groaning as they realized that their preparations would be essentially be set right back to square one.

[The Skeletal Atheist]

What truly amazes me is the fact that AMF and other 9/11 "truthers" seem to think that it would be easier to believe that there is some vast governmental conspiracy or some secret plot by foreign governments to sneak in high grade explosives into a BUSY office building in one of the busiest cities in the world(remember folks New York is the city that never sleeps) not only did they manage to sneak in the explosives into the office building(also a tourist destination)...

Round and round we go.  Another "government conspiracy" denier crashes the party.

Although government conspiracy could be considered a related topic, it is not really the point here.  The central issue is whether or not 7 WTC came down due to controlled demolition (my hypothesis and minority opinion) or whether it came down due to normal office fires (NIST's hypothesis, majority opinion), or if there was some other reason (several alternative theories have been mentioned).  So the big question is whether or not freefall is possible when there is structural material posing resistance.  My contention is that any falling object will fall more slowly than the rate of gravity when there is structural material offering resistance.  Pysicist Josephpalazzo PhD. and many others here insist that a falling object can accelerate at the rate of gravity even when it is falling through the path of greatest resistance.  And further, that is exactly what happened on September 11, 2001.

As a subset of the above argument, we are also discussing (I use the term "discuss" quite loosely) whether or not only muslim terrorists could have been so egregious as to kill thousands of people or whether jew, christian, other theist and (possibly) atheist terrorists might have also been among the scoundrels who caused the carnage.  The majority opinion seems to be that although jews, christians, and other theists sometimes do batshit crazy stuff, and jews especailly have a track record of doing batshit crazy stuff, only batshit crazy muslims are capable of anything of this magnitude.  The minority opinion is that you do not necessarily have to be muslim to be so barbarous.

If you want to debate whether or not there was a government conspiracy, why not take your discussion elsewhere?  All it really does is obscure the central issue.

You're so cute, you missed the part where he mentioned that he was an EOD who was there the day that it happened. I think it's time you go back to counting your fingers and toes.