LGBT People: The Pope is Not Our Ally

[StupidWiz]

I never consider him as our ally. Pretty words are not enough to make me overlook what his religion has done to us gays.

[Atheon]

One thing good I can say about Pope Francis is that he's making steam come out of the ears of scumbags like Bill O'Reilly, Rush Limbaugh and Sarah Palin.

[Solitary]

 8-)  8-) Solitary

[Hilaria]

My two cents.
This pope is a sly guy. In other words, a bright demagogue... when he was elected he was aware that the church was losing followers. I think this is fake liberality. He made it clear he cannot judge or condemn those homosexuals who are truly repenting and seeking God. His same God of course. The Church may even accept one's homosexuality as long as he/she doesn't have sex. Plain and simple.
From the posts I read here it seems that american republicans are stricter than the holy Inquisition!  :shock:

[SGOS]

The Catholic Church has a hard enough keeping up with scientific knowledge, let alone social change.  The gay liberation movement has been active for what? 50 years?  Even moderately intelligent people are beginning to understand it.  That's 50 YEARS!!  The Catholic Church does not readjust it's dogma at such lightning speeds.  It takes 500 years to accept that the Earth is not the center of the universe, even when our leading astronomers and cosmologists knew better.

The Pope speaks for the Church.  People just like him because he's the Pope.  Even non-Catholics listen carefully to the words of every Pope , as if they see Popes as the leaders of religious thought, and maybe even having an inside track with the Lord.

But there is no God and the Pope does not speak for him.  He speaks for the Church, and anyone that believes he reaches Popedom by the direction of a divine hand is an idiot.  His paycheck comes from the Church.  His job is given to him by the Church.  He's not going to undermine the church.  He does not control the church.  It's the other way around.

[SGOS]

An interesting read on why liberal Catholics have no effect on church doctrine:  They don't care about doctrine.  They see it as irrelevant.  Instead, their inspiration comes from Papal rhetoric.  Words have a big effect on Catholics (as they do on most people), even if they know the doctrine does not change.

http://theweek.com/article/index/255064 ... olics-want

The author of the article at first expressed personal skepticism over the rhetorical moderation of the Pope, but during an NPR call in program where he was the guest, a Catholic caller said (paraphrased), "We love the Pope and what he says.  We don't give a shit about Church doctrine."

I thought the article interesting, because the writer goes through a mental reconfiguration of sorts as he tries to understand the psychological dynamics of human nature.  It's not like he becomes more hopeful that the church will change.  Quite the contrary.  Instead, he worries that everyone is focused on the words, while they ignore the actions because the don't care about the actions.

People listen to bullshit.  They like bullshit.  It's why politicos avidly support the party of their choice, why liberals and humanitarians, gush over the words of the Pope, and why nothing changes for the better.  It's the words, not the actions, that count in people's minds.

Whoever coined the term, "Money talks and bullshit walks," got it ass backwards.  Bullshit means everything to people, and good bullshit makes money for the Vatican.

[GSOgymrat]

An interesting read on why liberal Catholics have no effect on church doctrine: They don't care about doctrine. They see it as irrelevant. Instead, their inspiration comes from Papal rhetoric. Words have a big effect on Catholics (as they do on most people), even if they know the doctrine does not change.

http://theweek.com/article/index/255064 ... olics-want

The author of the article at first expressed personal skepticism over the rhetorical moderation of the Pope, but during an NPR call in program where he was the guest, a Catholic caller said (paraphrased), "We love the Pope and what he says. We don't give a shit about Church doctrine."

I thought the article interesting, because the writer goes through a mental reconfiguration of sorts as he tries to understand the psychological dynamics of human nature. It's not like he becomes more hopeful that the church will change. Quite the contrary. Instead, he worries that everyone is focused on the words, while they ignore the actions because the don't care about the actions.

Very interesting. I have heard other Catholics make similar statements. One of my brothers, who is atheist, was having a conversation with a Catholic friend and pointing out that she was cherry picking things about the church she liked and ignoring the things she didn't. Her reaction was basically "So what? Everyone cherry picks. You belong to the Democratic party but don't agree with every policy. You love your mom but can't stand how she nags. I go to church, take from it what I find useful and meaningful and ignore the things I don't."

[Hijiri Byakuren]

Very interesting. I have heard other Catholics make similar statements. One of my brothers, who is atheist, was having a conversation with a Catholic friend and pointing out that she was cherry picking things about the church she liked and ignoring the things she didn't. Her reaction was basically "So what? Everyone cherry picks. You belong to the Democratic party but don't agree with every policy. You love your mom but can't stand how she nags. I go to church, take from it what I find useful and meaningful and ignore the things I don't."

The difference between the Catholic church and my own mother is that my mother doesn't claim to represent the inerrant word of God.

[GSOgymrat]

Very interesting. I have heard other Catholics make similar statements. One of my brothers, who is atheist, was having a conversation with a Catholic friend and pointing out that she was cherry picking things about the church she liked and ignoring the things she didn't. Her reaction was basically "So what? Everyone cherry picks. You belong to the Democratic party but don't agree with every policy. You love your mom but can't stand how she nags. I go to church, take from it what I find useful and meaningful and ignore the things I don't."

The difference between the Catholic church and my own mother is that my mother doesn't claim to represent the inerrant word of God.

LOL! I think my mother would have argued that point.

[The Skeletal Atheist]

Figured I might just resurrect this now that we have a Catholic on the board. See if he/she has an opinion on the matter.

[irish]

As an atheist, why should I care what the Pope says about anything?

It's a good question.  As an atheist or gay or lesbian why are you waiting for the nod of the approval of the pope to enter into gay marriage or have gay sex?  Makes no sense; the state legislates marriage not the Church.  Bitch to your politicians.
Irish.

[irish]

An interesting read on why liberal Catholics have no effect on church doctrine: They don't care about doctrine. They see it as irrelevant. Instead, their inspiration comes from Papal rhetoric. Words have a big effect on Catholics (as they do on most people), even if they know the doctrine does not change.

http://theweek.com/article/index/255064 ... olics-want

The author of the article at first expressed personal skepticism over the rhetorical moderation of the Pope, but during an NPR call in program where he was the guest, a Catholic caller said (paraphrased), "We love the Pope and what he says. We don't give a shit about Church doctrine."

I thought the article interesting, because the writer goes through a mental reconfiguration of sorts as he tries to understand the psychological dynamics of human nature. It's not like he becomes more hopeful that the church will change. Quite the contrary. Instead, he worries that everyone is focused on the words, while they ignore the actions because the don't care about the actions.

Very interesting. I have heard other Catholics make similar statements. One of my brothers, who is atheist, was having a conversation with a Catholic friend and pointing out that she was cherry picking things about the church she liked and ignoring the things she didn't. Her reaction was basically "So what? Everyone cherry picks. You belong to the Democratic party but don't agree with every policy. You love your mom but can't stand how she nags. I go to church, take from it what I find useful and meaningful and ignore the things I don't."

Catholics that don't believe in the doctrine are simply fools for staying in the Church just to bitch and moan about it.  They ought to find a Church that fits their set of beliefs.  Churches are a dime a dozen.  One holds the fullness of truth and that is the Catholic Church.

Irish

[the_antithesis]

One holds the fullness of truth and that is the Catholic Church.

Explain the logic behind that statement.

[irish]

The Catholic Church has a hard enough keeping up with scientific knowledge, let alone social change.  The gay liberation movement has been active for what? 50 years?  Even moderately intelligent people are beginning to understand it.  That's 50 YEARS!!  The Catholic Church does not readjust it's dogma at such lightning speeds.  It takes 500 years to accept that the Earth is not the center of the universe, even when our leading astronomers and cosmologists knew better.

The Pope speaks for the Church.  People just like him because he's the Pope.  Even non-Catholics listen carefully to the words of every Pope , as if they see Popes as the leaders of religious thought, and maybe even having an inside track with the Lord.

But there is no God and the Pope does not speak for him.  He speaks for the Church, and anyone that believes he reaches Popedom by the direction of a divine hand is an idiot.  His paycheck comes from the Church.  His job is given to him by the Church.  He's not going to undermine the church.  He does not control the church.  It's the other way around.

The Holy Spirit is in charge of the Catholic Church.  The Pope is infallible as far as doctrine is concerned.
Irish

[Plu]

It's easy to be infallible if people just take everything you say as gospel. Your pope could do a 180 today and it'd just be "a message from god".