A hard currency standard is the key to world peace

[Plu]

That's not better, that's asking to be butt-raped as a country by anyone smart enough to buy during peak hours and selling back during off-peak hours... which is basically everyone.

[zarus tathra]

And if they have battery technology that's efficient enough to store it and retrieve it efficiently that the power company is too lazy to use itself, then that's what it deserves. Which is a moot point, because that technology does not exist yet.

And if the power company managed to build such technology itself, then it would probably just redirect most energy to the energy stores at night and just start charging standardized rates. But again, that tech does not yet exist.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Hey, is the brick wall still standing?

[Hakurei Reimu]

It's actually better than a standard, since you'll get better than the standard rate during off-peak hours. As I've reiterated time and time again. And again. And again. And again. It's abundance, but it's abundance that's been quantified.

The fact that you've reduced your criticism to something so basic and so obvious means that yes, you probably should quit while you're not THAT far behind the rest of the class.

No. It means that I know what the words you use actually mean, instead of what you want them to mean. Your criticism of fiat dollars is that they may be printed without a care and so the government can create money out of thin air, as if this is a special power of the government and only the government. This is wrong. The US government is the only entity that can print currency, but currency isn't money. Banks create money through lending. The government creates money by borrowing money in the form of selling bonds, and then making good on them when those bonds mature. The Treasury's job is to exchange between non-currency monies and currency money — it buys dollars and then prints them. The Treasury doesn't actually create money at all. It just prints it in the form of currency.

Your joule-based currency only creates yet another currency, a currency that is quite clearly fiat and does not have an actual base as you have so adequately proved yourself. It is thus susceptible to the kind of schenanningans that you fear from any other fiat currency. And even if you somehow made it a proper based currency, the joulebuck wouldn't touch any kind of illicit commerce that does not intersect with currency, because while they use dollars in evaluating the worth of assets and monies, the dollar is only being used as a unit of account, and has nothing to do with the dollars in currency that are actually being shuffled around, if any.

[Hakurei Reimu]

And if they have battery technology that's efficient enough to store it and retrieve it efficiently that the power company is too lazy to use itself, then that's what it deserves. Which is a moot point, because that technology does not exist yet.

And if the power company managed to build such technology itself, then it would probably just redirect most energy to the energy stores at night and just start charging standardized rates. But again, that tech does not yet exist.

You do know that it's on- and off-peak somewhere in the world at any one time, right? It's therefore not a matter of storage, but of transport infrastructure, and a well-developed grid can shuffle electricity about easily enough. The power grid already does this to some extent already, but currently this doesn't actually result in the de neuvo creation of currency, as it shouldn't, but rather just as an increased profit. Your scheme would create new currency, constantly.

Even based currency inflates if there's too much around for the market of goods to use, as happened in Spain when it got its gold and silver from the New World, because inflation has nothing to do with its base and everything to do with how it is regarded as another commodity.

[zarus tathra]

You do know that it's on- and off-peak somewhere in the world at any one time, right? It's therefore not a matter of storage, but of transport infrastructure, and a well-developed grid can shuffle electricity about easily enough. The power grid already does this to some extent already, but currently this doesn't actually result in the de neuvo creation of currency, as it shouldn't, but rather just as an increased profit. Your scheme would create new currency, constantly.

So when they buy back energy the price you get will account for the distance loss. Invalidating yet another "scheme."

[Plu]

So now you have a currency whose value is dependant on how far you live from a powerplant. That's going to be an interesting one to pay with. Imagine your dollar being worth only 80 cents in the next city.

[zarus tathra]

It would probably encourage massive urbanization. But I agree that a joule standard would never be the ONLY standard.

[mykcob4]

It's actually better than a standard, since you'll get better than the standard rate during off-peak hours. As I've reiterated time and time again. And again. And again. And again. It's abundance, but it's abundance that's been quantified.

The fact that you've reduced your criticism to something so basic and so obvious means that yes, you probably should quit while you're not THAT far behind the rest of the class.

No. It means that I know what the words you use actually mean, instead of what you want them to mean. Your criticism of fiat dollars is that they may be printed without a care and so the government can create money out of thin air, as if this is a special power of the government and only the government. This is wrong. The US government is the only entity that can print currency, but currency isn't money. Banks create money through lending. The government creates money by borrowing money in the form of selling bonds, and then making good on them when those bonds mature. The Treasury's job is to exchange between non-currency monies and currency money — it buys dollars and then prints them. The Treasury doesn't actually create money at all. It just prints it in the form of currency.

Your joule-based currency only creates yet another currency, a currency that is quite clearly fiat and does not have an actual base as you have so adequately proved yourself. It is thus susceptible to the kind of schenanningans that you fear from any other fiat currency. And even if you somehow made it a proper based currency, the joulebuck wouldn't touch any kind of illicit commerce that does not intersect with currency, because while they use dollars in evaluating the worth of assets and monies, the dollar is only being used as a unit of account, and has nothing to do with the dollars in currency that are actually being shuffled around, if any.

Thanks for explaining that to him. Now get you're butt over to FOX and explain it to them because they don't know shit from shinola!

[zarus tathra]

If the variable joule standard puts stringent limits on how much currency can be printed even while allowing for variation to maintain near-full usage even during off-peak hours, then I would say that it accomplished everything that a hard standard is meant to accomplish.

[mykcob4]

If the variable joule standard puts stringent limits on how much currency can be printed even while allowing for variation to maintain near-full usage even during off-peak hours, then I would say that it accomplished everything that a hard standard is meant to accomplish.

I get your joule standard but that is just making money real and it isn't. It really hasn't ever been from the moment the first caveman realized that his flint rock would be worth more skins to one tribe that it would to another.

[josephpalazzo]

I'll bet two joules against an erg that you're wrong.

[zarus tathra]

Then I guess the programs that a technician enters into an industrial robot aren't real either. That's what machines do, they make abstractions real, up to a point. Since power generators are the engine of our system, and since their behavior is relatively predictable, it makes sense to base a monetary system around quantifying their output and their usage.

[zarus tathra]

Imagine your dollar being worth only 80 cents in the next city.

We already have that now. Try living in NYC off 40k a year.

[Plu]

Imagine your dollar being worth only 80 cents in the next city.

We already have that now. Try living in NYC off 40k a year.

Yeah exactly. And the current system, as you have said so many times, sucks. And yours is the same. I do hope you can reach the only valid conclusion by yourself at this point.