a day in god's world

[goodwithoutgod]

I always love when i have a theist backed into a corner on the creation fable and they come back with, "we don't know how long a day in god's world is..."

Here is what I have on that little drama...

There are three primary views that explain the meaning of the word "day" in Genesis 1. I will describe each one, and some of the purported Biblical evidence supporting each, briefly here. After all, this is a topic on which many books have been written.

24-hour Day Theory

This view, which is held by many Young Earth Creationists states that each of the 6 days were 24-hours long. Although they admit that the Sun was not created until the third day, this does not mean that the first two days could not have been 24-hours long, just the same.

A small sample of Biblical evidence to support this theory includes:

Genesis 1 mentions the passing of "morning" and "evening", this suggests literal days
A study of other Biblical texts which use the phrase "evening and morning" (38 not counting Genesis 1) all refer to 24-hour days
The Hebrew word for day (Yom) used in Genesis 1, whenever attached to a number elsewhere in scripture, it refers to a 24-hour day
See the book Creation and Time: A Report on the Progressive Creationist Book by Hugh Ross by Mark A Van Beber and Paul S. Taylor for more discussion on this, and relevant topics. Note: not to be confused with the book Creation and Time by Hugh Ross, to which the aforementioned book is a rebuttal.

1000-year Day Theory

Another view held by many Young Earth Creationists, it is essentially the same as the 24-hour Day Theory, with the exception that it acknowledges that God's perspective of time is different than the human perspective of time, in light of 2 Peter 3:8:

But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.
Therefore, the Genesis 1 days may refer to 1000-year time periods, rather than 24-hour time periods.

Day-Age Theory

This view, a subset of Old Earth Creationism, is the view that the word "day" in Genesis 1 is metaphorical, and represents an arbitrary amount of time. Consistency with scientific evidence is frequently cited, but also often criticized by Young Earth Creationsts as taking too liberal a view of scripture.

A small sample of Biblical evidence to support this view includes:

The Hebrew word for day (Yom) used in Genesis 1 has many meanings: (a) Some portion of the daylight (hours), (b) Sunrise to sunset, (c) Sunset to sunset, (d) A segment of time without any reference to solar days (from weeks to a year to several years to an age or epoch) [i.e. "In my grandfather's day" or "in the day of the dinosaurs]

In rebuttal to the popular argument which is made that none of these 38 mentions of "evening and morning" use the same Hebrew word for day (Yom), so drawing parallels is inappropriate.

In rebuttal to the popular argument which is made that when used elsewhere in the singular (as it is in Genesis 1) the Hebrew word (Yom) is always in reference to human activity, therefore drawing parallels to this usage in Genesis 1 in this case is also inappropriate.

The fact that the seventh day never ended suggests that we are still living in the seventh day, which would clearly indicate that the seventh "day" is many years long.
The Genesis 2 re-account of creation has Adam naming "all the wild animals and all the birds" (Genesis 2:19-20 NIV) between his own creation and before Eve was created, thus all on the 6th day. This would be impossible in a 24-hour period (Young Earth creationists often argue that God may have given Adam supernatural speed or abilities, or that prior to the fall man naturally had greater abilities that might allow this task to be completed in one day.)

..... and then further broken down..


Those who argue that the word "day" means "long age," point out that the Hebrew word, yom, can have a number of meanings, only one of which is "day of 24 hours."1 They further seek to strengthen their position with the use of Psalm 90:4 and II Peter 3:8, comparing a day to a thousand years. Both of these verses, however, are simply using figures of speech (similes) to show that God is not constrained by the same time parameters as are humans. These verses are really irrelevant to the discussion of the meaning of "day," in Genesis 1.

It is recognized, of course, that the word "day" can be used with a number of variations. It can have any of five meanings:
1) a period of light
2) a period of 24 hours
3) a general, vague time
4) a point of time
5) a year

The context determines which of these is intended by the writer. The English language also can have up to 14 definitions for the word "day."3 The reader should be reminded that the purpose of language is to communicate. Moses wrote in a language that was meant to communicate to his readers. Words must be defined by their relationship to one another.4 Word meaning must be determined from within its context. It will be shown how the context defines the word in Genesis 1.

The use of a number with the word "day" is very illuminating. This combination occurs 357 times outside of Genesis 1. The combination is used in four different ways, but each time it is used, it must mean 24-hour periods of time. If the combinations had been intended to mean long periods of time, both the texts and contexts then become meaningless. A typical verse is Genesis 30:36: "And he (Laban) set three days journey betwixt himself and Jacob." God frequently issued commands that the people were to do or not to do certain things on a given day. This use occurs 162 times. A good example is Exodus 24:16: "And the glory of the Lord abode upon Mount Sinai, and the cloud covered it six days, and on the seventh day He called unto Moses out of the midst of the cloud." These are the most typical uses of the word "day" with a number. Four times the terms are used to show a starting point. Ezra 3:6 says, "From the first day of the seventh month they began to offer burnt offerings unto the Lord." A number may also be used with "day" to convey an ending point. An example is Leviticus 19:6: "It shall be eaten the same day ye offer it, and on the morrow: and if ought remain until the third day, it shall be burnt in the fire." It would appear, then, that whenever the Old Testament uses a number with the word "day," it means a 24-hour period of time without any demonstrable exception.

If the meaning of the word "day" with a number always means a 24-hour period of time outside of Genesis 1, then it should also mean a 24-hour period of time inside Genesis 1. The words that Moses used to communicate what God did during creation are very significant. If Moses had meant to signify that the "days" were more than 24 hours in length, he could easily have done so. If we are to understand what Moses wrote, then the language he used must be understood in its normal meaning. The normal meaning is that of 24-hour periods of time.


So my posit is, the day debacle has been successfully answered. Your thoughts? Counters? Support?

[Solitary]

How can there be a day with no sun? They are rationalizing  contradictions in the Bible to make it go away like they do with all the other contradictions. How can a day be a thousand years? It doesn't make any sense logically. Years cannot be a day by definition.  :roll:  Solitary

[josephpalazzo]

There's better way of looking at this: the bible was written by bronze-age goat herders who knew very little of math, physics, chemistry, biology, astronomy, cosmology, psychology, the social sciences, the political science, the arts, and  were more concerned about bringing some answers in some very primitive way to a whole bunch of people who would be considered as very primitive by our modern standard.

[leo]

The creation myth is really a joke.

[mykcob4]

I always love when i have a theist backed into a corner on the creation fable and they come back with, "we don't know how long a day in god's world is..."

Here is what I have on that little drama...

There are three primary views that explain the meaning of the word "day" in Genesis 1. I will describe each one, and some of the purported Biblical evidence supporting each, briefly here. After all, this is a topic on which many books have been written.

24-hour Day Theory

This view, which is held by many Young Earth Creationists states that each of the 6 days were 24-hours long. Although they admit that the Sun was not created until the third day, this does not mean that the first two days could not have been 24-hours long, just the same.

A small sample of Biblical evidence to support this theory includes:

Genesis 1 mentions the passing of "morning" and "evening", this suggests literal days
A study of other Biblical texts which use the phrase "evening and morning" (38 not counting Genesis 1) all refer to 24-hour days
The Hebrew word for day (Yom) used in Genesis 1, whenever attached to a number elsewhere in scripture, it refers to a 24-hour day
See the book Creation and Time: A Report on the Progressive Creationist Book by Hugh Ross by Mark A Van Beber and Paul S. Taylor for more discussion on this, and relevant topics. Note: not to be confused with the book Creation and Time by Hugh Ross, to which the aforementioned book is a rebuttal.

1000-year Day Theory

Another view held by many Young Earth Creationists, it is essentially the same as the 24-hour Day Theory, with the exception that it acknowledges that God's perspective of time is different than the human perspective of time, in light of 2 Peter 3:8:

But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.
Therefore, the Genesis 1 days may refer to 1000-year time periods, rather than 24-hour time periods.

Day-Age Theory

This view, a subset of Old Earth Creationism, is the view that the word "day" in Genesis 1 is metaphorical, and represents an arbitrary amount of time. Consistency with scientific evidence is frequently cited, but also often criticized by Young Earth Creationsts as taking too liberal a view of scripture.

A small sample of Biblical evidence to support this view includes:

The Hebrew word for day (Yom) used in Genesis 1 has many meanings: (a) Some portion of the daylight (hours), (b) Sunrise to sunset, (c) Sunset to sunset, (d) A segment of time without any reference to solar days (from weeks to a year to several years to an age or epoch) [i.e. "In my grandfather's day" or "in the day of the dinosaurs]

In rebuttal to the popular argument which is made that none of these 38 mentions of "evening and morning" use the same Hebrew word for day (Yom), so drawing parallels is inappropriate.

In rebuttal to the popular argument which is made that when used elsewhere in the singular (as it is in Genesis 1) the Hebrew word (Yom) is always in reference to human activity, therefore drawing parallels to this usage in Genesis 1 in this case is also inappropriate.

The fact that the seventh day never ended suggests that we are still living in the seventh day, which would clearly indicate that the seventh "day" is many years long.
The Genesis 2 re-account of creation has Adam naming "all the wild animals and all the birds" (Genesis 2:19-20 NIV) between his own creation and before Eve was created, thus all on the 6th day. This would be impossible in a 24-hour period (Young Earth creationists often argue that God may have given Adam supernatural speed or abilities, or that prior to the fall man naturally had greater abilities that might allow this task to be completed in one day.)

..... and then further broken down..


Those who argue that the word "day" means "long age," point out that the Hebrew word, yom, can have a number of meanings, only one of which is "day of 24 hours."1 They further seek to strengthen their position with the use of Psalm 90:4 and II Peter 3:8, comparing a day to a thousand years. Both of these verses, however, are simply using figures of speech (similes) to show that God is not constrained by the same time parameters as are humans. These verses are really irrelevant to the discussion of the meaning of "day," in Genesis 1.

It is recognized, of course, that the word "day" can be used with a number of variations. It can have any of five meanings:
1) a period of light
2) a period of 24 hours
3) a general, vague time
4) a point of time
5) a year

The context determines which of these is intended by the writer. The English language also can have up to 14 definitions for the word "day."3 The reader should be reminded that the purpose of language is to communicate. Moses wrote in a language that was meant to communicate to his readers. Words must be defined by their relationship to one another.4 Word meaning must be determined from within its context. It will be shown how the context defines the word in Genesis 1.

The use of a number with the word "day" is very illuminating. This combination occurs 357 times outside of Genesis 1. The combination is used in four different ways, but each time it is used, it must mean 24-hour periods of time. If the combinations had been intended to mean long periods of time, both the texts and contexts then become meaningless. A typical verse is Genesis 30:36: "And he (Laban) set three days journey betwixt himself and Jacob." God frequently issued commands that the people were to do or not to do certain things on a given day. This use occurs 162 times. A good example is Exodus 24:16: "And the glory of the Lord abode upon Mount Sinai, and the cloud covered it six days, and on the seventh day He called unto Moses out of the midst of the cloud." These are the most typical uses of the word "day" with a number. Four times the terms are used to show a starting point. Ezra 3:6 says, "From the first day of the seventh month they began to offer burnt offerings unto the Lord." A number may also be used with "day" to convey an ending point. An example is Leviticus 19:6: "It shall be eaten the same day ye offer it, and on the morrow: and if ought remain until the third day, it shall be burnt in the fire." It would appear, then, that whenever the Old Testament uses a number with the word "day," it means a 24-hour period of time without any demonstrable exception.

If the meaning of the word "day" with a number always means a 24-hour period of time outside of Genesis 1, then it should also mean a 24-hour period of time inside Genesis 1. The words that Moses used to communicate what God did during creation are very significant. If Moses had meant to signify that the "days" were more than 24 hours in length, he could easily have done so. If we are to understand what Moses wrote, then the language he used must be understood in its normal meaning. The normal meaning is that of 24-hour periods of time.


So my posit is, the day debacle has been successfully answered. Your thoughts? Counters? Support?

i understand what you are trying to do here, but I don't think it will make much difference. Theist won't accept logic of anykind if it exposes the absurdity of their myth.

[AllPurposeAtheist]

Here's how MY argument with creationists goes: Piss off with your silly shit.

Believe it or not Piss off usually works. :)

[Solitary]

Why does piss sound so nasty? My wife just hates that word and cocksucker.  :shock:    Solitary

[AllPurposeAtheist]

Why does piss sound so nasty? My wife just hates that word and cocksucker.  :shock:    Solitary

For some reason, don't ask, I'm picturing a stern feminine figure glaring at you saying, 'Pissoff cocksucker!' :shock:

Don't take it personally..

[ApostateLois]

The whole "and there was evening and there was morning, the first day" thing kind of eliminates any possibility of a day referring to a period of millions of years, as some creationists claim. They would then have to explain the meaning of "evening" and "morning" in the context of such a time period. Does that mean there were periods of darkness alternating with periods of light, each period lasting many millions of years? How would this even be possible? Nothing on Earth could live like that. Plants would die without light after only a few weeks, never mind a thousand, or a million, or a billion years. Or is "evening and morning" a metaphor for something else? It seems that everything in the Bible is just a metaphor, provided you can't explain it any other way.

The passage saying that a thousand years is as a day, says just that: AS a day. It doesn't say that a day in heaven equals one thousand years here on Earth. In this case, the writer really is just making the statement that God is eternal, and that his concept of time is different to ours, since we have such short lives. A being that never dies probably would view a thousand years in the same way we view a day--or, more likely, a minute. I can picture God sitting around in his underwear, watching TV, and muttering, "Is it 2013 already? Damn, where did the time go? Well, guess I better get back to work."

[Thumpalumpacus]

I just can't bring myself to write that much about claptrap.

By the way, I love that word, claptrap.