The origin of Thanksgiving

[Plu]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nicole-br ... 37722.html

Opinions? This is the first time I've heard this story and it seems a little low on backing information, so I'm not immediately convinced.

[AllPurposeAtheist]

It wouldn't shock me, but what might shock me is if right wing and left wing news tabloid sites actually backed their stories with verifiable historical facts instead of assuming we should just buy it merely because it's on their sites..

[hillbillyatheist]

didn't get past the title. fuck these politically correct types.  

bunch of self righteous pompous wet blankets if you ask me.

and btw I'm part native american. I'm Choctaw. I even get free healthcare because of it.

[Maelstrom]

I do not celebrate the holiday, just as I do not celebrate any of them.

[SGOS]

Well, I'll be damned.  That explains the old episode of Northern Exposure where the village Indians celebrated Thanksgiving by putting up cut outs of skulls and throwing tomatoes at white people.  It gave an incomplete explanation of why they did it.  I've often thought I should read up about the holiday so I could understand what the script writers were trying to say.

[GrinningYMIR]

It strikes me that I posted that in the wrong thread


whoops

[josephpalazzo]

Wow, that sent chills down my spine.

[stromboli]

Total BS.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pequot_War

Before the war's inception, efforts to control fur trade access resulted in a series of escalating incidents and attacks that increased tensions on both sides. Political divisions between the Pequot and Mohegan widened as they aligned with different trade sources—the Mohegan with the English, and the Pequot with the Dutch. The Pequot assaulted a tribe of Indians who had tried to trade at what is known as Hartford. Tension sparked as the Massachusetts Bay Colony, became a stronghold for wampum, the supply of which the Pequot had controlled up until 1633.[citation?] John Stone, an English rogue, smuggler and privateer, and about seven of his crew were murdered by the Western tributary clients of the Pequot, the Niantic. According to the Pequots' later explanations, they did that in reprisal for the Dutch having murdered the principal Pequot sachem Tatobem, and were unaware of the fact that Stone was English and not Dutch.[8] In the earlier incident, Tatobem had boarded a Dutch vessel to trade. Instead of conducting trade, the Dutch seized the sachem and appealed for a substantial amount of ransom for his safe return. The Pequot quickly sent bushels of wampum, but received only Tatobem's dead body in return.

Stone, the privateer, was from the West Indies. He had been banished from Boston for malfeasance (including drunkenness, adultery and piracy). Since he was known to have powerful connections in other colonies as well as London, he was expected to use them against the Boston colony. Setting sail from Boston, Stone abducted two Western Niantic men, forcing them to show him the way up the Connecticut River. Soon after, he and his crew were suddenly attacked and killed by a larger group of Western Niantic.[9] While the initial reactions in Boston varied between indifference and outright joy at Stone's death,[10] the colonial officials later decided to protest the killing. They did not accept the Pequots' excuses that they had been unaware of Stone's nationality. The Pequot sachem Sassacus sent some wampum to atone for the murders, but refused the colonists' demands that the Western Niantic warriors responsible for Stone's death be turned over to them for trial and punishment.[11]
On July 20, 1636, a respected trader named John Oldham was attacked on a trading voyage to Block Island. He and several of his crew were killed and his ship looted by Narragansett-allied Indians who sought to discourage English settlers from trading with their Pequot rivals. In the weeks that followed, colonial officials from Massachusetts Bay, Rhode Island, and Connecticut, assumed the Narragansett were the likely culprits. Knowing that the Indians of Block Island were allies of the Eastern Niantic, who were allied with the Narragansett, Puritan officials became suspicious of the Narragansett.[12] However, Narragansett leaders were able to convince the English that the perpetrators were being sheltered by the Pequots.

Wampum:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wampum

[Plu]

There is a page on that wiki stating there is still a debate on the issue:

While it is still debated amongst scholars, some modern historians are in agreement that the national holiday of Thanksgiving found its origins in the memory of the Pequot War. [27] Certain historical misconceptions over time led to the mythologizing of the Thanksgiving story which was not one of a harvest celebration but as William Newell of the University of Connecticut has described as "A day of Thanksgiving, thanking God that they had eliminated over 700 men, women and children." And further notes that the governor of Massachusetts Bay Colony declared in 1637, "This day forth shall be a day of celebration and thanksgiving for subduing the Pequots." These facts have been largely relegated to the realms of esoterica due to mainstream and commercialist associations with the Thanksgiving holiday.[citation needed]

Which does show that it's not neccesarily BS, but not factual either. Apparently the subject is still open to debate.

Of course "citation needed" doesn't really lend much credibility either.

I'm still on the side of "unconvinced" on the whole topic. Evidence seems to be too sparse to really support it.

[josephpalazzo]

Thanks for the clarification. So basically, there were skirmishes, killings and plunderings that had started way back. And aren't we supposed to be created in God's image?!? So much for that.

[AllPurposeAtheist]

So the pilgrims didn't REALLY land on Plymouth Rock, find some indians and sit down together for a Thanksgiving dinner that couldn't be beat??  Well slap my mouth! My 1st grade teacher, Miss Thompson lied? NO WAY DUDES! :shock:

[stromboli]

The point of my post is that the Pequot were not just some totally innocent victims to the end game, but rather involved in an ongoing political trade war. The Pequot made the mistake of siding with the Dutch. Had they sided with the English, we might be visiting a Pequot Sun casino instead of a Mohegan Sun casino today. Also the author, regardless of her background, obviously has a bone to pick. Until I see a totally objective analysis of this I would remain skeptical. Also, there are a few different versions of how the holiday came to be.

The "known" part is how it was introduced first as a holiday by George Washington and then later formalized by congress in the 1940's. It was a regional holiday that spread over decades and finally became a national holiday.

[Poison Tree]

Why would a massacre that happened in May be celebrated in November?

[AllPurposeAtheist]

So..not all just thanking baby jebus for the bountiful harvest? I can't believe YOU people don't believe the stories told you as children. It's illegal to make up bullshit stories for kids isn't it? :)

[stromboli]

I can't believe YOU people don't believe the stories told you as children. It's illegal to make up bullshit stories for kids isn't it? :)

Santa Claus? Easter Bunny? Wait for it.......TOOTH FAIRY?