Why I am beginning to hate science/research

[Eugeny Anatolievich]

Which in this case is basically politicians/society.

Something is wrong with some scientists, I think. They should be more responsible to the results of their work and not allow politicians to manipulate them. From whom did politicians get nuclear, chemical and bacteriological weapon? Scientists gave them all this shit. And after politicians have got all these weapons, scientists have launched a campaign to ban weapons of mass destruction. Does this make sense?

[Shiranu]

Which in this case is basically politicians/society.

Something is wrong with some scientists, I think. They should be more responsible to the results of their work and not allow politicians to manipulate them. From whom did politicians get nuclear, chemical and bacteriological weapon? Scientists gave them all this shit. And after politicians have got all these weapons, scientists have launched a campaign to ban weapons of mass destruction. Does this make sense?

Many of those weapons were never intended to be weapons but rather were byproducts of research for other uses. And even then much of the weaponizing work was conducted by scientists other than the original researchers.

[Shiranu]

You people have hated me ever since I wrote my intro post saying that I am not an atheist.

Until you posted this, I was not aware you were a theist. And I don't particularly have anything against you, you just say some really stupid shit sometimes... such as this thread.

[Eugeny Anatolievich]

the weaponizing work was conducted by scientists other than the original researchers

These other scientists are scientists too. Scientist must be responsible. I say it me too, 'cos I'm a scientist, a chemist. Sometimes I think about my personal responsibility and responsibility of my collegues for everything we do.  Modern science is expensive, so we depend on the rich men, industry, and politicians. They grant money for researches. I can not do what I'm wondering without a budget.

[LikelyToBreak]

Autism is a tough condition for us to understand.  Doesn't mean we should try though.

I think I understand better where mediumaevum is coming from.  Ask yourself, if thought the goons were looking for you to hand you over to Doctor Josef Mengele, (SS Officer in Nazi Germany) how would you feel about "science?"  If I thought I might be experimented on, I would like to be in control of whether I actually took part in those experiments or not.  Sure, I want a cure for my diseases and conditions, but I don't want to be forced to be part of an experiment to find those cures.  

Currently, all valid experiments on humans must first be approved by an ethics board.  Which is good.  Still, with a nationalized health care system, couldn't someone down the line decide the good of the many is more important than the good of the one?  I don't see why not.  Our bill of rights has been trampled before, it is naive to think it won't be trampled again.  In fact, the current administration and the administrations before it have trampled on the bill of rights many times.  Why not one more time?

That being said, scientists tend to do more good than harm towards society.  If I could help with experiments, where there was reasonable disclosure to me before the tests took place, I think I would be happy to help.  But, that choice should be mine, not society's decision.

[Shiranu]

Ask yourself, if thought the goons were looking for you to hand you over to Doctor Josef Mengele, (SS Officer in Nazi Germany) how would you feel about "science?"

Thank god there is nothing even remotely close to this going on in the article, so I see no reason for that to be a valid concern for fearing science (in this context, anyways).

[Colanth]

It's about that I don't want mind altering drugs or surgeries, which will be the reality if a cure for autism is found.

So because you don't want to be cured, the millions of people who do want to be cured shouldn't be?

BTW, did you read the part in the article that says that you can choose to not participate?  Or did your ASD prevent you from understanding that?

[Mermaid]

It's ok for scientists to conduct cosmological research or nuclear research, but I don't think medical research is a good idea after all.

Oh. Well this seems like sound reasoning. DOWN WITH SCIENCE!

[Shiranu]

... but I don't think medical research is a good idea after all.

Holy fuck, I just saw that.

My brain just shit itself.

[Mermaid]

I opened the water bottle thread before this one and I was all  :-s

But now I am all  8-[

[Mermaid]

...and please, hate the science. Don't hate the scientists.  :(

[Hijiri Byakuren]

You people have hated me ever since I wrote my intro post saying that I am not an atheist.

Hate is such a strong word. You make a lot of arguments I find to be bewilderingly stupid, but if that's all it took for me to hate someone I would hate most of the population of planet Earth.

[LikelyToBreak]

Shiranu wrote:

Quote:

Ask yourself, if thought the goons were looking for you to hand you over to Doctor Josef Mengele, (SS Officer in Nazi Germany) how would you feel about "science?"

Thank god there is nothing even remotely close to this going on in the article, so I see no reason for that to be a valid concern for fearing science (in this context, anyways).

Not that we know of.  The Tuskegee experiments went from 1932 til 1972.  Project MKUltra went from 1953 til 1973.  Both were done in secret and we learned about them after they were halted.  There was a well known eugenics program in the US during 1930's, in fact it was the model for the German program at the same time.  While not exactly as bad as Dr. Mengele, the government knowingly ruined people's lives and caused deaths.  

Seems to me that we should be on the look-out for any type of "program" along those lines.  Not necessarily paranoid about them, but aware that they can and did happen.  It is not my "duty" to be forced into doing somebody's medical experiment.  My mother volunteered for a cancer "experiment" of her own free will.  At least for her it was not a success.  But, maybe they learned something from her death.  At least that is what we hope.  But, it was not her "duty" to take part in it.  She volunteered knowing she could have a bad outcome from it.  

Those who don't suffer from mental illness may not understand why so many of us who do are so leery of "scientists" doctors who treat us.  Often it is along the lines of "Well, let's try this and see what happens."  Sometimes what happens is the patient commits suicide.  They may have anyway, but I know from personal experience, that some of the drugs I was put on caused me to just not give a damn rather I died or not.  They also caused me to gain over a hundred pounds, which I didn't need.  Still trying to get it off.

Anyway, I think I understand why some don't want to be cured.  The old, "The operation was a success, but the patient died."  Seems very real to those of us having been practiced on.

[Hydra009]

Seems to me that we should be on the look-out for any type of "program" along those lines.

If only there was some sort of organization set up to do just that.

Being on the "look-out" for a "program" is to rely on public perceptions rather than empirical data.  Not a good idea.

[LikelyToBreak]

Hydra009 wrote in part:

Being on the "look-out" for a "program" is to rely on public perceptions rather than empirical data. Not a good idea.

While I think I understand your point, the "experts" can't always be counted on to watch out for our best interests.  From the site Hydra009 referenced:

Although designed to protect the rights and welfare of the research subjects, IRBs have been criticized by bioethicists for conflicts of interest resulting in lax oversight.

Another concern we in the public should have, are the black op projects like MKUltra, which were hid from the public and the IRB's.