How can Christians love this god??

[FrankDK]

> I get the impression you've never actually read the Bible

That's why going with your impressions is dangerous: they are often wrong.  I've read the Bible cover to cover.  I don't pretend to have it memorized, but I do have portions of it committed to memory, and remember where significant issues are covered.

> and just copy and paste other peoples' work.

You mean like you did when you pasted a reference to "sphere" that didn't have the word "sphere" or "circle" in it?

> The commandment is, in fact, specified as innocent life.
Exodus 23:7 NASB

> Keep far from a false charge, and do not kill the innocent or the righteous, for I will not acquit the guilty.

You are clearly a cafeteria Christian.  You pick and choose from the Bible.  Consider:

Exodus 20:13:  Thou shalt not kill.
Deuteronomy 5:17:  Thou shalt not kill.

No mention of "innocent."  Those are the two from what is generally (but wrongly) considered to be The Ten Commandments.  What you've done is not cover up a contradiction but highlight yet another one.  Spare no one, or spare just the innocent?  Besides, there are many places in which your god instructs his chosen people to kill innocents.  Consider:

Numbers 31:17-18:  Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man. [Moses speaking for God.]

You're right about it being a rabbit hole.  No matter how blatant the contradiction, you will find a way to avoid admitting to it.  For example, if I point out that Matt 27:5 says that Judas (the betrayer of Jesus) hanged himself, and that Acts 1:18 says he died of a fall, you will say something preposterous like he hanged himself, the rope broke, and he fell.  If that were true, it means that both the references are wrong, since each leaves out a critical part.

I noticed that you have avoided responding to the flat, unmoving earth references.  Those are pretty hard to argue against without appearing willfully ignorant.

Frank

[Sulaco]

An oldie, but a goodie..

[Coyote]

As a recent convert to atheism, I will attempt to address the original topic in my old, Christian viewpoint.

God has allowed the events of our world to guide themselves to an end that he has already seen.  People die all the time, every day, and it's not God's fault.  We ate the freakin' fruit after all.  If you blame God for all of the evil in the world, you must also blame him for all of the good . . . yes, you are blaming him . . . . no, that's not saying anything different . . . . you're still blaming him . . . . why do you keep blaming him . . . . . la la la la, I can't hear you . . . . you really should stop blaming him . . . . . no, fuck you!

[FrankDK]

As a recent convert to atheism, I will attempt to address the original topic in my old, Christian viewpoint.

God has allowed the events of our world to guide themselves to an end that he has already seen.  People die all the time, every day, and it's not God's fault.  We ate the freakin' fruit after all.  If you blame God for all of the evil in the world, you must also blame him for all of the good . . . yes, you are blaming him . . . . no, that's not saying anything different . . . . you're still blaming him . . . . why do you keep blaming him . . . . . la la la la, I can't hear you . . . . you really should stop blaming him . . . . . no, fuck you!

Bingo!

Frank

[Eve]

I brought up some tough issues for some Christians to address about their god's justice. God foreknew that the Holocaust would happen, and people would die as Jews. Jews by definition do not accept Jesus as their saviour; therefore, those who died in the Holocaust as Jews went to hell. Yet God created them anyway?

" Hell" is "death". All people die, not Jews only. But God saved all those Jews from death 2000 years ago. He atoned for all people. Jews are part of all people. Those Jews will resurrect and live again.  :-D

[Solitary]

Will someone explain to me what good any religion has done for any sentient creature outside of false hope that doesn't really help anyone but make them feel better like a psychiatrist. A bar tender can do that and better with two drinks.  :shock:    Solitary

The ONLY thing I can think of is consoling someone of the fear of death, for either themselves or for one of their loved ones. I can imagine that being of some help to someone of the extremely faint of heart.

And like I said that makes them feel better. If you think consoling can take away someone's fear you are wrong. That's like saying consoling can take away pain. Solitary

[Solitary]

> Christians believe the Bible was written by God through men. The claim that the men were ignorant and didn't know much of anything about anything is evidence for the Bible being written by God. The more you attack the men God used to write the Bible the more you provide evidence for the claim that Someone more intelligent was actually behind it. If a bunch of really smart, worldly people wrote the Bible then we shouldn't be too surprised that it became the world's best-seller.

Hardly.  The Bible says that the earth is flat, that the sun revolves around the earth and not the other way around, that diseases are caused by evil spirits, and loads of other malarkey.

One of many contradictions:
Exodus 20:13:  Thou shalt not kill.

Exodus 32:27:  Put, every man, his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and everyman his neighbor.

In the Bible, your god is inadvertently made out to be an idiot, a liar, a murderer, and a psychopath.  If it had been written by a god, it would have no errors, contradictions, or stupidity in it.

The reason it has become a best-seller is the Roman short sword.  In Nazi Germany, the best seller was Mein Kampf.  That didn't make it true or written by a god.

Frank

Well, we're going down quite a rabbit trail now. But the Bible teaches that the earth is a sphere, not flat (Luke 17:34-35).

And the commandment is not to take innocent life. No contradiction there.

But I wonder what good it would do if God revealed to you that the Bible was true. Would you then agree that you are evil and deserve to go to hell like the Bible teaches?

It also teaches the sun stood still and revolves around the earth. You know what, If God revealed the Bible, whatever one you want, is true, I'll publically give him a blowjob and I'm not gay.  :roll:  Solitary

[Solitary]

According to the Bible, God does not merely punish people. He routinely slaughters them in droves and creates laws designed to make people treat each other in as cruel a manner as possible. These are not the actions of a kind and loving deity, regardless of anything he did at a later date.

If we focus on the parts of the Bible that contradict your philosophy, it is only because you and people like you routinely ignore those parts.

I don't ignore those parts. Was Obama evil for having Bin Laden slaughtered? Should he have sent Bin Laden some gifts after locating him instead? The sins that each and every person has committed against God are worse than the crimes Bin Laden committed against humanity. You don't think so because you think you're a good person. If people are good then I agree with you that God would be evil for treating them the way He has. But people are evil, not good. And therefore God shows His goodness and hatred of evil when He 'slaughters' them.

If Obama purposely killed innocent woman and child like God has done he would be evil. You're comparing apples to oranges and not being logical. Was Bush and Cheney evil when they told a lie and got millions killed? What are you 12 years old?  :roll:  Solitary

[Solitary]

> Well, we're going down quite a rabbit trail now. But the Bible teaches that the earth is a sphere, not flat (Luke 17:34-35).

Those verses read, "34 I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. 35 Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left."

No reference to a sphere.  (In the reference you are thinking of, the earth is described as a circle, not a sphere.)  However, in Daniel 4:10-11, the king "saw a tree of great height at the centre of the earth...reaching with its top to the sky and visible to the earth's farthest bounds."  That could only be possible if the earth were flat.  Also, in Matt 4:8, Satan takes Jesus to the top of a mountain so high they could see"all the kingdoms of the earth."  That could only be possible if the earth were flat.

In Joshua 10:12, 13, and Habakkuk 3:11, the sun is said to stand still.  That could only happen if it normally went around the earth, not the other way around.

1 Chronicles 16:30, Psalms 93:1, and Psalms 96:10 state unequivocally that the earth never moves.

> And the commandment is not to take innocent life. No contradiction there.

You are lying.  Read the Bible.  That verse says nothing about "innocent."  Even if it did, there are many places where your god instructs people to kill innocents.  And there are many other contradictions.

> But I wonder what good it would do if God revealed to you that the Bible was true. Would you then agree that you are evil and deserve to go to hell like the Bible teaches?

Sure.  Why doesn't he do that?  Why does he make it look like there is no god, and the Bible is a crock?  He must not want me to believe.

Frank

I get the impression you've never actually read the Bible and just copy and paste other peoples' work.

The commandment is, in fact, specified as innocent life.
Exodus 23:7 NASB

Keep far from a false charge, and do not kill the innocent or the righteous, for I will not acquit the guilty.

Luke 17:34-35 describe some people experiencing night and some people experiencing day when an event happens. That's pretty tough with a flat earth. As a bonus, it also shows Jesus' claim to be Savior of the world, and not just Israel.

The Bible does teach that faith is a gift and God isn't obligated to give it to anyone, let alone everyone. We are rebels against God, who alone is good. We deserve only punishment, not gifts. Giving us faith is like a judge giving a murderer a new car instead of sending them to prison. That is why Christ died for our sins. So that God could give us gifts and still be good.

You really don't want to go there, and here is why. Most people at this forum not only know the New Testaments, but the Old and many Bible that are printed. If you want to debate the Bible and make a fool out of yourself I'm all ears. Have you read the Bible is the question. Here is just a very small part you missed or ignore:

Exodus


Moses murders an Egyptian after making sure that no one is looking. 2:11-12

"And the Egyptians shall know that I am the LORD." Who else could be so cruel and unjust? 7:5, 17

God wants to be remembered forever for the mass murder of little children. 10:2

To commemorate the divine massacre of the Egyptian children, Moses instructs the Israelites to "sacrifice to the Lord all that openeth the matrix" -- all the males, that is. God has no use for dead, burnt female bodies. 13:2, 12, 15

A child who hits or curses his parents must be executed. 21:15, 17

:roll:   #-o  Solitary

[Eve]

If Obama purposely killed innocent woman and child like God has done he would be evil.

Yes, he would be evil. But there is a BIG difference between Obama and God of Israel.  According to God of Israel He can restore what is taken. God can resurrect those who He kills. Obama can not do this. Obama can only turn USA to USSR.   Only communists could tell me that they know better then I do what is good for me. I smell marksism. I know this smell. I recognize it.  

[Jason78]

You really don't want to go there, and here is why. Most people at this forum not only know the New Testaments, but the Old and many Bible that are printed. If you want to debate the Bible and make a fool out of yourself I'm all ears. Have you read the Bible is the question. Here is just a very small part you missed or ignore:

Some of us have even read the non-canon books rejected at the council of Nicaea that didn't make the cut for the Bible.

[Eugeny Anatolievich]

But there is a BIG difference between Obama and God of Israel.

Yep. Obama is a nigger, but god of Israel is a Jew.

[Solitary]

If Obama purposely killed innocent woman and child like God has done he would be evil.

Yes, he would be evil. But there is a BIG difference between Obama and God of Israel.  According to God of Israel He can restore what is taken. God can resurrect those who He kills. Obama can not do this. Obama can only turn USA to USSR.   Only communists could tell me that they know better then I do what is good for me. I smell marksism. I know this smell. I recognize it.  

And you have evidence that God can do this? So how does that take away the fact that your God does evil? He can't take away the pain and suffering from His evil acts.  :rollin:  :roll:  Solitary

[Solitary]

But there is a BIG difference between Obama and God of Israel.

Yep. Obama is a nigger, but god of Israel is a Jew.

He! He!  [-X  :-$  Solitary

[Eugeny Anatolievich]

Anything wrong?