How can Christians love this god??

[bfiddy100]

> Christians believe the Bible was written by God through men. The claim that the men were ignorant and didn't know much of anything about anything is evidence for the Bible being written by God. The more you attack the men God used to write the Bible the more you provide evidence for the claim that Someone more intelligent was actually behind it. If a bunch of really smart, worldly people wrote the Bible then we shouldn't be too surprised that it became the world's best-seller.

Hardly.  The Bible says that the earth is flat, that the sun revolves around the earth and not the other way around, that diseases are caused by evil spirits, and loads of other malarkey.

One of many contradictions:
Exodus 20:13:  Thou shalt not kill.

Exodus 32:27:  Put, every man, his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and everyman his neighbor.

In the Bible, your god is inadvertently made out to be an idiot, a liar, a murderer, and a psychopath.  If it had been written by a god, it would have no errors, contradictions, or stupidity in it.

The reason it has become a best-seller is the Roman short sword.  In Nazi Germany, the best seller was Mein Kampf.  That didn't make it true or written by a god.

Frank

Well, we're going down quite a rabbit trail now. But the Bible teaches that the earth is a sphere, not flat (Luke 17:34-35).

And the commandment is not to take innocent life. No contradiction there.

But I wonder what good it would do if God revealed to you that the Bible was true. Would you then agree that you are evil and deserve to go to hell like the Bible teaches?

[bfiddy100]

Do you realize the bible was written by bronze-age sheep herders who were vastly ignorant of how the universe works, or had a very primitive understanding of human psychology?!??!?

Christians believe the Bible was written by God through men.  The claim that the men were ignorant and didn't know much of anything about anything is evidence for the Bible being written by God.  

Here's a list of contradictions: http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/ ... tions.html

If the bible is God's words through ignorant people, your God is a fucking moron. Lets put it this way: there should be some evidence that would distinguish real things from fantasy. If there is none-- then it makes sense to conclude they're fantasy.

Did you used to post on Bulk Nutrition forums?

[josephpalazzo]

Christians believe the Bible was written by God through men.  The claim that the men were ignorant and didn't know much of anything about anything is evidence for the Bible being written by God.  

Here's a list of contradictions: http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/ ... tions.html

If the bible is God's words through ignorant people, your God is a fucking moron. Lets put it this way: there should be some evidence that would distinguish real things from fantasy. If there is none-- then it makes sense to conclude they're fantasy.

Did you used to post on Bulk Nutrition forums?

WTF

If you want to troll, there are plenty of forums you can do that.

[FrankDK]

> Well, we're going down quite a rabbit trail now. But the Bible teaches that the earth is a sphere, not flat (Luke 17:34-35).

Those verses read, "34 I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. 35 Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left."

No reference to a sphere.  (In the reference you are thinking of, the earth is described as a circle, not a sphere.)  However, in Daniel 4:10-11, the king "saw a tree of great height at the centre of the earth...reaching with its top to the sky and visible to the earth's farthest bounds."  That could only be possible if the earth were flat.  Also, in Matt 4:8, Satan takes Jesus to the top of a mountain so high they could see"all the kingdoms of the earth."  That could only be possible if the earth were flat.

In Joshua 10:12, 13, and Habakkuk 3:11, the sun is said to stand still.  That could only happen if it normally went around the earth, not the other way around.

1 Chronicles 16:30, Psalms 93:1, and Psalms 96:10 state unequivocally that the earth never moves.

> And the commandment is not to take innocent life. No contradiction there.

You are lying.  Read the Bible.  That verse says nothing about "innocent."  Even if it did, there are many places where your god instructs people to kill innocents.  And there are many other contradictions.

> But I wonder what good it would do if God revealed to you that the Bible was true. Would you then agree that you are evil and deserve to go to hell like the Bible teaches?

Sure.  Why doesn't he do that?  Why does he make it look like there is no god, and the Bible is a crock?  He must not want me to believe.

Frank

[Sulaco]

:-x  I just don't get it! Do they not realise what they are saying? Those victims were REAL people with families! How can Christians justify this horror? This is the god they love and serve.

I'd like your thoughts on this.

-TR

Psychologically speaking, christians are genuinely disfunctional. For the majority, religion is either a coping mechanism or a shared cultural belief, thus their sense of logic and reason are based around maintaining their beliefs, rather then looking at things objectively and rationally.

Looking at it from an evolution/nature perspective, it could be said that religion is a primal response to the survivability and wellbeing of the mind along with cultural acceptance. For example, an abused or neglected child by his parents is likely to be involved in religion as the prospect of a powerful deity who loves him replaces what he feels is missing in his life. His dedication to maintaining that belief system is one of self-preservation, rather then something that has any credibility or truth to it.

The fact that the belief system involves genocide, rape, etc is irrelevant; what's most important to the individual is his own peace of mind.

[ApostateLois]

Christians believe the Bible was written by God through men.  The claim that the men were ignorant and didn't know much of anything about anything is evidence for the Bible being written by God.  The more you attack the men God used to write the Bible the more you provide evidence for the claim that Someone more intelligent was actually behind it.  If a bunch of really smart, worldly people wrote the Bible then we shouldn't be too surprised that it became the world's best-seller.

But that's just stupid. The Bible LOOKS as if it was written by people who had very primitive views of nature and human behavior, as well as barbaric ideas of how justice should be meted out. Their laws are very misogynistic and pro-slavery, they were extremely warlike, and the god they worshiped reflected all of that. If someone more intelligent than the ruling classes were behind the Bible, then we would expect to see evidence of that. There is none. It is written in accordance with the social and religious practices that were very common among many peoples of the time.

[bfiddy100]

> Well, we're going down quite a rabbit trail now. But the Bible teaches that the earth is a sphere, not flat (Luke 17:34-35).

Those verses read, "34 I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. 35 Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left."

No reference to a sphere.  (In the reference you are thinking of, the earth is described as a circle, not a sphere.)  However, in Daniel 4:10-11, the king "saw a tree of great height at the centre of the earth...reaching with its top to the sky and visible to the earth's farthest bounds."  That could only be possible if the earth were flat.  Also, in Matt 4:8, Satan takes Jesus to the top of a mountain so high they could see"all the kingdoms of the earth."  That could only be possible if the earth were flat.

In Joshua 10:12, 13, and Habakkuk 3:11, the sun is said to stand still.  That could only happen if it normally went around the earth, not the other way around.

1 Chronicles 16:30, Psalms 93:1, and Psalms 96:10 state unequivocally that the earth never moves.

> And the commandment is not to take innocent life. No contradiction there.

You are lying.  Read the Bible.  That verse says nothing about "innocent."  Even if it did, there are many places where your god instructs people to kill innocents.  And there are many other contradictions.

> But I wonder what good it would do if God revealed to you that the Bible was true. Would you then agree that you are evil and deserve to go to hell like the Bible teaches?

Sure.  Why doesn't he do that?  Why does he make it look like there is no god, and the Bible is a crock?  He must not want me to believe.

Frank

I get the impression you've never actually read the Bible and just copy and paste other peoples' work.

The commandment is, in fact, specified as innocent life.
Exodus 23:7 NASB

Keep far from a false charge, and do not kill the innocent or the righteous, for I will not acquit the guilty.

Luke 17:34-35 describe some people experiencing night and some people experiencing day when an event happens. That's pretty tough with a flat earth. As a bonus, it also shows Jesus' claim to be Savior of the world, and not just Israel.

The Bible does teach that faith is a gift and God isn't obligated to give it to anyone, let alone everyone. We are rebels against God, who alone is good. We deserve only punishment, not gifts. Giving us faith is like a judge giving a murderer a new car instead of sending them to prison. That is why Christ died for our sins. So that God could give us gifts and still be good.

[Hijiri Byakuren]

I get the impression you've never actually read the Bible and just copy and paste other peoples' work.

Did you really say that right after he quoted the damn book to you?

The Bible does teach that faith is a gift and God isn't obligated to give it to anyone, let alone everyone. We are rebels against God, who alone is good. We deserve only punishment, not gifts. Giving us faith is like a judge giving a murderer a new car instead of sending them to prison. That is why Christ died for our sins. So that God could give us gifts and still be good.

According to the Bible, God does not merely punish people. He routinely slaughters them in droves and creates laws designed to make people treat each other in as cruel a manner as possible. These are not the actions of a kind and loving deity, regardless of anything he did at a later date.

If we focus on the parts of the Bible that contradict your philosophy, it is only because you and people like you routinely ignore those parts.

[bfiddy100]

According to the Bible, God does not merely punish people. He routinely slaughters them in droves and creates laws designed to make people treat each other in as cruel a manner as possible. These are not the actions of a kind and loving deity, regardless of anything he did at a later date.

If we focus on the parts of the Bible that contradict your philosophy, it is only because you and people like you routinely ignore those parts.

I don't ignore those parts. Was Obama evil for having Bin Laden slaughtered? Should he have sent Bin Laden some gifts after locating him instead? The sins that each and every person has committed against God are worse than the crimes Bin Laden committed against humanity. You don't think so because you think you're a good person. If people are good then I agree with you that God would be evil for treating them the way He has. But people are evil, not good. And therefore God shows His goodness and hatred of evil when He 'slaughters' them.

[Plu]

A truly good (and powerful) person would have, after locating Bin Laden, taught him how to repair the damage he caused. Killing him is the response of a petty, vindictive and weak creature that does not possess the power to deal with evil.

So I guess that if your god is petty, vindictive, and weak what you're saying makes sense. Otherwise, it does not, because anyone with any kind of real power would be able to repair evil instead of destroying it. Destroying something is always a sign of being too weak to fix it.

[leo]

According to the Bible, God does not merely punish people. He routinely slaughters them in droves and creates laws designed to make people treat each other in as cruel a manner as possible. These are not the actions of a kind and loving deity, regardless of anything he did at a later date.

If we focus on the parts of the Bible that contradict your philosophy, it is only because you and people like you routinely ignore those parts.

I don't ignore those parts. Was Obama evil for having Bin Laden slaughtered? Should he have sent Bin Laden some gifts after locating him instead? The sins that each and every person has committed against God are worse than the crimes Bin Laden committed against humanity. You don't think so because you think you're a good person. If people are good then I agree with you that God would be evil for treating them the way He has. But people are evil, not good. And therefore God shows His goodness and hatred of evil when He 'slaughters' them.

Holy smokes   :shock: This is for real?  Evil actions are good if this god commit them ? I honestly  can't laugh from this .

[Hijiri Byakuren]

I don't ignore those parts.

Oh dear, you're one of those. *cracks knuckles* Let's get this over with.

Was Obama evil for having Bin Laden slaughtered?

Yes. Killing a sentient being for any reason beyond immediate self-defense is evil. A truly good person would have had the man stand trial, pay for his crimes, and then try to reform him. This is pretty much Humanism 101.

Should he have sent Bin Laden some gifts after locating him instead?

It's very telling that you seem to think the options are limited to "death" or "gifts." Your worldview must require a painfully simplistic mindset.

The sins that each and every person has committed against God are worse than the crimes Bin Laden committed against humanity.

Bin Laden killed some 3000 people on 9/11, and his organization has been responsible for many more deaths since then. According to the Bible, the worst thing humans ever did to God was eat a fucking fruit. Most people would just have you pay the $10 restitution and call it a day.

You don't think so because you think you're a good person.

Last time I checked, I haven't been personally responsible for any form of murder, rape, slavery, oppression, or all-around reprehensible behavior. I pay my taxes, look after me and mine, donate to charity, and overall make my contribution to society. I ain't exactly a hero for the ages, but I'm alright.

If people are good then I agree with you that God would be evil for treating them the way He has. But people are evil, not good.

If all people are evil because the first two protagonists in your preferred fairy tale ate a fucking fruit, you have an odd sense of moral priorities. Regardless, if your god were a good and loving person, then the Bible would be full of stories with him trying to reform people, not massacring the shit out of their population.

And therefore God shows His goodness and hatred of evil when He 'slaughters' them.

Hatred of evil makes you no better. Your god is evil. Accept it.

[Sulaco]

Yes. Killing a sentient being for any reason beyond immediate self-defense is evil. A truly good person would have had the man stand trial, pay for his crimes, and then try to reform him. This is pretty much Humanism 101.

Humanism 101 by whose standards?

And at what period of time?

It's important to keep in mind that ethics and morality are man-made systems .. much like religion ;) And as with all things man-made, the definition and parameters of it will change from one society to the next, and from one generation to the next.

ie what you and others at this point in time might define as good and evil will differ to someone else from another region of the earth and/or in a different time period.

And this is probably why christians struggle with the prospect of ethics and morality outside of their religion - for it is their god that dictates these things as a universal construct that never changes. Unfortunately it presents problems for societies, and religious and non-religious will engage in more conflicts as time passes by.

people are evil, not good. And therefore God shows His goodness and hatred of evil when He 'slaughters' them.

Hence why many consider christianity to be one of the most inhumane and corrupt belief systems in the world.

The concept of a deity setting laws to define good vs evil, only then to commit those same evil acts and to justify it is a corrupt dictatorship. Christopher Hitchens compares this sort of system to North Korea.

[Hijiri Byakuren]

It's important to keep in mind that ethics and morality are man-made systems .. much like religion ;)

I know. What I'm doing is called, "speaking in terms they'll understand."

[PghPanther]

Jesus offers you the free gift of eternal life...............your choice and free.......

No thanks??

Burn in hell then............

Some free gift.........

I never remember being offered a free gift that I refused, which had a consequence to it........let alone one like that.

Here........have a free dinner......

No thanks not hungry.....

Well then starve to death!