A thought for the forum

[Icarus]

Yes we are all lost in a great wreckage surrounded by deep waters, but many, unable or unwilling to swim, are clinging to a rock they call 'religion'. Others, recognizing the rock for what it truly is – merely another piece of flotsam – are saying, "Come away from there; forget faith, just use your reason and you will be able to swim like us." Some of these have been collecting floating debris and building it into a raft of knowledge known as science; and the raft has grown until it is now quite as big as the 'false rock' of religion. Growing numbers, abandoning their faith, have mustered just enough reason to allow them to splash across to the raft of science, and they are now clinging to that quite as desperately as they ever clung to the rock of religion. All of them hoping that it will, in the end, give the answer they seek - the answer to the burning question that everyone is asking, "What the f**k are we doing here anyway?"

Whatever we want? I wake up in the morning happy that I will have another day to find answers I seek and after I get to enjoy my hobbies. What more do you want? Your analogy is good but I'd have to tweak it a bit, because by saying religion is a rock is suggesting it has something concrete about it, which I disagree with. Religion would be the sweet release from life by drowning, they believe something much better is on the other side so why live. Atheists don't want to die so they try to swim to the raft instead of accepting death.

[Mermaid]

Being a Christian and an atheist is a difficult balancing act but I have managed it now for some twenty five years.

I'm sorry, what?  :-s
I read your post and I can't get past this.

[Crump]

You folks need to get out more. Can I really be the first Christian Humanist you've come across? There are a lot more atheist Christians than any of you seem to think.

Try Jack Shelby Spong for starters.

http://johnshelbyspong.com/

[Hydra009]

Yes we are all lost in a great wreckage surrounded by deep waters, but many, unable or unwilling to swim, are clinging to a rock they call 'religion'. Others, recognizing the rock for what it truly is – merely another piece of flotsam – are saying, "Come away from there; forget faith, just use your reason and you will be able to swim like us." Some of these have been collecting floating debris and building it into a raft of knowledge known as science; and the raft has grown until it is now quite as big as the 'false rock' of religion. Growing numbers, abandoning their faith, have mustered just enough reason to allow them to splash across to the raft of science, and they are now clinging to that quite as desperately as they ever clung to the rock of religion. All of them hoping that it will, in the end, give the answer they seek - the answer to the burning question that everyone is asking, "What the f**k are we doing here anyway?"
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[Plu]

I just consider the concept of "christian humanist" too silly to spend any time on it, so even if I'd meet a bunch of them, I'd never remember. It just seems like a huge waste of time for someone who isn't scared to just be himself.

[Icarus]

You folks need to get out more. Can I really be the first Christian Humanist you've come across? There are a lot more atheist Christians than any of you seem to think.

Try Jack Shelby Spong for starters.

http://johnshelbyspong.com/

Most people don't label themselves with oxymoron titles. You're the first I've ever met in that regard. Example: I'm a young earth creationist and an evolutionary biologist (not actually). Doesn't make sense.

[Crump]

An atheist must make up his or her own mind and come to a decision based on reason.

Not at all.  A newborn infant is an atheist (it has no belief in any god).  A chair is trivially an atheist, since it has no belief in any god.  (The ability to hold a belief isn't a requirement of not holding a belief.)  I think you're misusing the word "atheist" - it's not a decision, it's lack of belief in any god.  Period.  Nothing more.  Lack of theism.  (Theism is belief in one or more gods.)  Chairs, trees and stars have no belief in any gods, as far as we know, so they're all atheistic (lacking belief in any god).  Since one of the characteristics of a Christian is belief in the Christian god, one can't be both an atheist and a Christian. A thing can't be what it's not (the law of identity), and one can't both believe in a god and not believe in any gods.

But one CAN be confused.

Well if you're saying that an atheist is an unthinking entity such as a newborn child or a chair then I guess there's no real point in having discussions with atheists at all. The kind of atheists I had hoped to meet on this forum were those who, like myself, had thought about their beliefs and had come to a reasoned view that rejects the notion of God or gods. But if what I'm encountering is those for whom the idea of God is simply unthinkable, and since of course what cannot be thought of cannot be rejected, then it must be true that some at least of the contributors to this forum are the type of unthinking atheists you describe.

[Plu]

An atheist can be both. People incorrectly assume that atheist required someone who thought about it and rejected god. Most people here still belong in that latter category, though.

But it's important to understand what words mean. Otherwise you end up with calling yourself a "christian atheist", which basically means you're pointlessly redefining words and making life really complicated for everyone for pretty much no reason at all.

[Crump]

An atheist can be both. People incorrectly assume that atheist required someone who thought about it and rejected god. Most people here still belong in that latter category, though.

But it's important to understand what words mean. Otherwise you end up with calling yourself a "christian atheist", which basically means you're pointlessly redefining words and making life really complicated for everyone for pretty much no reason at all.

Many religious people are also atheist, this includes Jains, most Buddhists, significant numbers of Jews, many Spiritualists, Wicca of course, and increasingly Christians. Is this a forum for all atheists, or only for those who suit your particular prejudice?

[Hydra009]

Well if you're saying that an atheist is an unthinking entity such as a newborn child or a chair then I guess there's no real point in having discussions with atheists at all.

#-o  That's not what he's saying.  Try again.

The kind of atheists I had hoped to meet on this forum were those who, like myself, had thought about their beliefs and had come to a reasoned view that rejects the notion of God or gods. But if what I'm encountering is those for whom the idea of God is simply unthinkable

Not unthinkable, just unbelievable.

[Crump]

Not unthinkable, just unbelievable.

Now I agree with that entirely, God is unbelievable, but Jesus isn't.

[Plu]

An atheist can be both. People incorrectly assume that atheist required someone who thought about it and rejected god. Most people here still belong in that latter category, though.

But it's important to understand what words mean. Otherwise you end up with calling yourself a "christian atheist", which basically means you're pointlessly redefining words and making life really complicated for everyone for pretty much no reason at all.

Many religious people are also atheist, this includes Jains, most Buddhists, significant numbers of Jews, many Spiritualists, Wicca of course, and increasingly Christians. Is this a forum for all atheists, or only for those who suit your particular prejudice?

You cannot be both a christian and an atheist unless you mangle one of the two definitions to the point where the word becomes meaningless. "A christian who does not believe in God" makes no sense, and neither does "An atheist who believes in God".

That means you are now in the land of word salad, and people here generally don't care for that kind of crap. Speak clearly, speak cleanly, and don't make writers of dictionaries spin in their graves.

Also, I never said anything about "religious atheists" being an issue. Only "christian atheist" is problematic, because one of the core ideas of christianity is believing in the divinity of jesus. What you are is not a christian atheist, it's an atheist who likes clinging to some of the tales from the bible for whatever reason.

Once you can accept that, or explain the other 2 billion christians that believing in god and jesus is not required to be a christian, we can continue with the actual discussion. Until then, it's pointless because you are wasting our time by using words without using their common definition.

[Hydra009]

Many religious people are also atheist, this includes Jains, most Buddhists, significant numbers of Jews, many Spiritualists, Wicca of course, and increasingly Christians.

All of those except Judaism are not necessarily theistic religion.  Christianity, Judaism, and Islam are theistic religions, so Christian atheist (or Muslim atheist) is a contradiction of terms similar to colorless pink.  The only reason Jewish atheist get a pass is because Jewish identity is also understood as an ethnic/cultural identity, so Jewish in the cultural/ethnic sense but not the religious sense is possible.

[Hydra009]

Now I agree with that entirely, God is unbelievable, but Jesus isn't.

Here we have to entirely disagree.  The miraculous Jesus commonly believed in is almost certainly a fabrication centuries in the making.

[Plu]

And the non-miraculous Jesus is just a guy of which we've seen millions and that really doesn't deserve all the special consideration he's given; if you want a good role-model to follow, we have thousands walking around right now that you can find and follow. Much more modern ones, even, that have their words backed with far more experience and understanding.