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A thought for the forum

Started by Crump, September 23, 2013, 05:48:28 PM

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AllPurposeAtheist

Interesting reading. Thanks for the links. Who's the walrus now? We know who the egg man is. :wink:
All hail my new signature!

Admit it. You're secretly green with envy.

mykcob4

Quote from: "Crump"
Quote from: "mykcob4"Okay I stopped reading when you stated that you are a christian AND an Atheist. That is absurd.
So heres the deal. If you can't decide then thats fine but you cannot be both. I and no Atheist I know of will recruit you to become an Atheist. Every single christian I know will recruit you to not only be a christian, but it won't count with them unless you are their particular type of christain.
So you have your work cut out for you. You say that you are an intellect, so lets see some of that brain power. Decide don't decide, I really don't care. If you do decide I don't really care which side you choose, but you can't be both.

Can you recruit an atheist? I don't believe you can. An atheist must make up his or her own mind and come to a decision based on reason. Above all an atheist must doubt, because without doubt reason cannot function. So it ill behoves a true atheist to declare what another person can or can't think, especially if that other person has been an atheist for fifty years and has probably thought about these things much longer and much deeper than those who say, "You cant be that." Yes I can be both atheist and Christian and the only difficulty is that you cannot understand that. The problem is yours, my friend, not mine.
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Nope Atheist and I don't declare what person can or can't think. Pointing out that you are WRONG isn't telling you what to think. Therefore YOUR problem. And pointing out that you are wrong is NOT an opinion, it's a fact. You can't be a christian AND an Atheist. Wether you think it or not is ilrelevant. You're wrong. Just plain fact. Noone is both an atheist and a christian by definition. Now you can be undecided, and or confussed, but you are NOT both an Atheist and a christian. I don't give a rat's ass HOW long you've thought about it. Being wrong for a long long time is still wrong. And you sir/madam are wrong!

mykcob4

Quote from: "kilodelta"
Quote from: "PickelledEggs"
Quote from: "Crump"Yes I can be both atheist and Christian and the only difficulty is that you cannot understand that. The problem is yours, my friend, not mine.
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Being christian means believing in the christian faith, mythology, and god, in either part or full. Being atheist means no belief in any part of any religion. That's what atheism is. No belief in that stuff. None, zero, zilch, nada, 0, naught, (how many other ways can I say none?)

You are going to have to tell us what you mean by you being christian, as well as you being atheist. that way we can be on the same page. Otherwise I don't understand what your saying. And that is because of a communication discrepancy on your part.

An atheist can be religious. e.g. Buddhists
Here's a listing: //http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Secular_religions#Atheistic_Religions

An atheist can believe in ghosts, karma, and witchcraft... all sorts of faith-based reasoning.

The only thing about the atheist is that they do not have a god belief.

As for who's a Christian, it can be loosely interpreted.
he said he was "christian" and Atheist, and that is an impossibility. I don't care how you spin it. It is a fcat that an Atheist is not, cannot be a christian or vise versa by definition!

AllPurposeAtheist

mykcob4.. Anyone can define anything they want. If I want to define you as a 1932 Plymouth I can and there's not a damned thing you can do about it except to say, "DAMMIT! I'M NOT A PLYMOUTH!" to which I can say, "You are now and I suggest an oil change at least every 5000 miles."

See how that works?
All hail my new signature!

Admit it. You're secretly green with envy.

Hydra009

Quote from: "AllPurposeAtheist"mykcob4.. Anyone can define anything they want.
That's somewhat true.  Words do change meanings over time.  And yet, water is still wet and fire is still hot.

mykcob4

Quote from: "AllPurposeAtheist"mykcob4.. Anyone can define anything they want. If I want to define you as a 1932 Plymouth I can and there's not a damned thing you can do about it except to say, "DAMMIT! I'M NOT A PLYMOUTH!" to which I can say, "You are now and I suggest an oil change at least every 5000 miles."

See how that works?
It still doesn't change the fact that they are wrong.

PickelledEggs

Quote from: "Hydra009"water is still wet and fire is still hot.

Well... that is relative...

Colanth

Quote from: "Crump"Now you see, you've misunderstood me completely. I'm writing about my feelings
Oh, okay.  Do you know what you'll get here for posting your feelings?  "That's nice, who cares?"

QuoteBut although you call them assertions they are really more like suggestions, aren't they?
No, you said they're feelings, not suggestions.  Or did you forget what you posted?

QuoteAnd where are these assumptions of which you speak?
You're Christian so you make at least 2 assumptions - that God exists and that Jesus is anything other than a myth.  No evidence for either.

QuoteCertainly every question that it is possible to ask, it is also possible to answer
Not really.  You can ask what our purpose for existing (as a species) is, but if there is no purpose (and there's no evidence that there is any), the question can't be answered.  (You might say that the answer is "there isn't any purpose", but that's an explanation of why there's no answer to the question, it's not an answer to the question.)

Quotefor if I was to ask you, "Does this question have an answer?" you would, of course, be able to provide one, even though that answer may be 'no'.
I might not be able to answer either yes or no.  I could respond "I don't know", but that's a response, not an answer.

QuoteAn atheist must make up his or her own mind and come to a decision based on reason.
Not at all.  A newborn infant is an atheist (it has no belief in any god).  A chair is trivially an atheist, since it has no belief in any god.  (The ability to hold a belief isn't a requirement of not holding a belief.)  I think you're misusing the word "atheist" - it's not a decision, it's lack of belief in any god.  Period.  Nothing more.  Lack of theism.  (Theism is belief in one or more gods.)  Chairs, trees and stars have no belief in any gods, as far as we know, so they're all atheistic (lacking belief in any god).  Since one of the characteristics of a Christian is belief in the Christian god, one can't be both an atheist and a Christian. A thing can't be what it's not (the law of identity), and one can't both believe in a god and not believe in any gods.

But one CAN be confused.
Afflicting the comfortable for 70 years.
Science builds skyscrapers, faith flies planes into them.

Colanth

Quote from: "PickelledEggs"Between what kilo said and what Crump pm-ed me (//http://www.christianhumanist.net/christianity-without-religion.html) I have a bit more of an idea of what he is talking about.
1) The very first sentence of that page is wrong - there's considerable disagreement among historians.  (There's no disagreement among Christian apologists, but that's like saying that there's no dry liquid water - it's a tautology that Christians all agree that Jesus was a real person.  Anyone who questions that is, by definition, not a Christian.)

2) Christianity holds that there's a supernatural creator.  Religion is belief in a supernatural creator.  Holding either belief while rejecting the other is irrational, illogical and not completely sane.

The page is just one more example of a Christian who doesn't understand his own words.
Afflicting the comfortable for 70 years.
Science builds skyscrapers, faith flies planes into them.

PickelledEggs

#24
Quote from: "Colanth"
Quote from: "PickelledEggs"Between what kilo said and what Crump pm-ed me (//http://www.christianhumanist.net/christianity-without-religion.html) I have a bit more of an idea of what he is talking about.
1) The very first sentence of that page is wrong - there's considerable disagreement among historians.  (There's no disagreement among Christian apologists, but that's like saying that there's no dry liquid water - it's a tautology that Christians all agree that Jesus was a real person.  Anyone who questions that is, by definition, not a Christian.)

2) Christianity holds that there's a supernatural creator.  Religion is belief in a supernatural creator.  Holding either belief while rejecting the other is irrational, illogical and not completely sane.

The page is just one more example of a Christian who doesn't understand his own words.
haha i didn't say i agreed with him. just that i had a better idea of what he was talking about. or rather a better idea that he doesn't know what he is talking about / doesn't know how to communicate what he is trying to talk about.

Maybe he means he is culturally christian? I guess I would be slightly culturally christian... I mean, I do get a christmas tree and put the lights up for the holidays... but the fact that I don't believe in any of the theology whatsoever puts me in the atheist category.

the_antithesis

Quote from: "PickelledEggs"
Quote from: "Hydra009"water is still wet and fire is still hot.

Well... that is relative...


Water is still wetter than my pants and fire is still hotter than my pants.

Bobbotov

Being a Christian atheist is like being a virgin prostitute. In either case you're gonna get fucked.
___________________________________________________
It is easier to fool people than convince them they have been fooled. [/color]
M. Twain

Jason78

Quote from: "Crump"Yes I can be both atheist and Christian and the only difficulty is that you cannot understand that.

I get it! :D  You're an atheist, and your name is Christian!

Do I win a prize for solving the riddle?
Winner of WitchSabrinas Best Advice Award 2012


We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real
tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. -Plato

Crump

Yes we are all lost in a great wreckage surrounded by deep waters, but many, unable or unwilling to swim, are clinging to a rock they call 'religion'. Others, recognizing the rock for what it truly is – merely another piece of flotsam – are saying, "Come away from there; forget faith, just use your reason and you will be able to swim like us." Some of these have been collecting floating debris and building it into a raft of knowledge known as science; and the raft has grown until it is now quite as big as the 'false rock' of religion. Growing numbers, abandoning their faith, have mustered just enough reason to allow them to splash across to the raft of science, and they are now clinging to that quite as desperately as they ever clung to the rock of religion. All of them hoping that it will, in the end, give the answer they seek - the answer to the burning question that everyone is asking, "What the f**k are we doing here anyway?"
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Crump

Our own right hand the chains must shiver.

Plu

The whole christian humanist things sounds to me like it's written by someone who's too smart to be religious and too scared to be himself.