President Obama PLANNED Russia-Syria Situation?

[billhilly]

Not really. When posters can't even point one good thing about Obama, you need to question their motivation. You can criticize any politician, that's fine, but when it's all negative from a poster, and that poster can't even give Obama one credit, come one, wake up.

This topic of this thread is whether or not the way the Syrian deal played out was planned by Obama.  Pretty much everybody but you has been sticking to and arguing about the Syrian issue.  

But hey, just to try and ease your hyper accusatory mind – I think Obama fucked up the Syrian deal from the start with his red lines and threats of violence even though it worked out in the end thanks to Putin but I really like the way he refused to defend the 'defense of marriage' act in court and got rid of 'don't ask, don't tell' in the military.  Feel better?

Maybe you could start a thread titled 'Things I like about Obama' or 'Why Racism is Bad'

[Smartmarzipan]

We disagree on a lot of stuff, sure, but you seemed like a pretty intelligent guy and I tend read what you write and take it into account. And now here you are just calling people racist because they don't like Obama's policies and/or question political propaganda.

Not really. When posters can't even point one good thing about Obama, you need to question their motivation. You can criticize any politician, that's fine, but when it's all negative from a poster, and that poster can't even give Obama one credit, come one, wake up. If you think that the election of Obama has wiped out racism in the US, think again. It's worse than ever. 50 years ago people were blatantly racist. They didn't hide it, in fact, often they were proud of it. Today, the same racists hide their racism, which in my opinion, makes it worse, not better. They use code-words so that when they speak to the choir, they understand each other, without publicly showing their racism. And their subtle attacks are more vicious and more devious.

Hey, you're preaching to the choir, here. I get that racism is bad...before the site went down, I had a whole thread about my shitty job that showed me the ugly face of America's prevalent racism. But you just can't start calling people racist because they don't want to point out the good things Obama may have done. It only means that they aren't open to seeing that side of Obama, not that they're racist. That's stepping over the line, IMO. When Bush was president, there were plenty of people who did the same thing....Bush could do nothing right to them. Doesn't make them racist against old, white guys.  

You need to chill the fuck out.

Sorry, but racism needs to be pointed out, and be categorically denounced.

Sure, actual racism does.

BTW, I'm still waiting for any of these posters to say: Hey, I might not agree with everything Obama does but I'm with you. Racism has to be denounced. Funny, none of them so far came out to say that.

Oh come on, they shouldn't HAVE to do that. They shouldn't have been labeled "racist" in the first place just because they don't like Obama's policies. You see this with every president. There will always be people who don't like a damn thing about the Commander in Chief and will criticize everything they do. We don't need to drag race into this, especially when it's clearly not a factor.

[josephpalazzo]

Not really. When posters can't even point one good thing about Obama, you need to question their motivation. You can criticize any politician, that's fine, but when it's all negative from a poster, and that poster can't even give Obama one credit, come one, wake up.

This topic of this thread is whether or not the way the Syrian deal played out was planned by Obama.  Pretty much everybody but you has been sticking to and arguing about the Syrian issue.  

But hey, just to try and ease your hyper accusatory mind – I think Obama fucked up the Syrian deal from the start with his red lines and threats of violence even though it worked out in the end thanks to Putin but I really like the way he refused to defend the 'defense of marriage' act in court and got rid of 'don't ask, don't tell' in the military.  Feel better?

Maybe you could start a thread titled 'Things I like about Obama' or 'Why Racism is Bad'

May I remind you that initially I was answering SGOS's post that claimed Obama was a weak leader, and I counter-posted with Obama's top 50 accomplishments. And how did you answer me?

Here is your assinine answer from page 1 on this thread:

I'm surprised he misread America's lack of interest in another war, and then equally surprised that he should disregard polls that reflect it.

I don't think this issue redefines him as especially weak.  He has been a weak president from the start.  His skills are in oratory, not in policy.  His legacy will not be that of a strong president, and he won't leave much behind that will be of great value.

Obama's top 50 accomplishments

Are you fuckin kidding me?  Just a few examples-

Passed Health Care Reform – and then promptly started delaying implementation and issuing exemptions.

Passed the Stimulus – Horray! More money for the 1%.  Gotta keep the corporations that fucked us alive so they can keep fucking us

Passed Wall Street Reform – see above.  Nothing like more barriers to entry for the smaller financial institutions.  Let's keep it concentrated in the 'too big o fail' group.

Began Drawdown of War in Afghanistan – still there and still bombing wedding parties with drones.

Turned Around U.S. Auto Industry – remains to be seen but is giving taxpayer money to big assed corporations really a good thing?

Recapitalized Banks – more taxpayer money for the 1 percenters

Toppled Moammar Gaddafi – fucking with yet more middle eastern countries.

Told Mubarak to Go – still fucking with yet more middle eastern countries

Reversed Bush Torture Policies – reversed as in he doesn't brag about it.  Gitmo's sill open for business along with the black sites in 'cooperating countries'  

Improved America's Image Abroad – Hahahahahaha.  That there's funny.  

The list goes on and on with bullshit spin.  How comforting it must be to be able to make the "good" choice of the two options presented.  The "Democrats=good, Republicans=evil" (or vice versa) shit is about on par with theism as far as willfully deluding yourself in order to feel better about the world.

You threw the first insults, don't you forget it.

[billhilly]

Well golly, I'm sorry I insulted you by disagreeing with your propaganda.

[Shiranu]

You threw the first insults, don't you forget it.

Disagreement isn't insulting. Running around accusing anyone who disagrees with you a blatant racist, on the other hand, is.

[josephpalazzo]

BTW, I'm still waiting for any of these posters to say: Hey, I might not agree with everything Obama does but I'm with you. Racism has to be denounced. Funny, none of them so far came out to say that.

Oh come on, they shouldn't HAVE to do that. They shouldn't have been labeled "racist" in the first place just because they don't like Obama's policies. You see this with every president. There will always be people who don't like a damn thing about the Commander in Chief and will criticize everything they do. We don't need to drag race into this, especially when it's clearly not a factor.

I disagree with that. The opposition to Obama has been way over the run-of-the-mill opposition to a president. And some posters in this thread have shown every bit of racism, especially when they have no arguments, or when they make assertions that turned to be factually wrong, and all you get is another baseless tirade. It's one thing to present your opposing views with sound arguments, it's another thing to present opinions that reek of hatred.

[josephpalazzo]

Well golly, I'm sorry I insulted you by disagreeing with your propaganda.

It wasn't the disagreements that gave you away, but the tone of your post.

[Smartmarzipan]

BTW, I'm still waiting for any of these posters to say: Hey, I might not agree with everything Obama does but I'm with you. Racism has to be denounced. Funny, none of them so far came out to say that.

Oh come on, they shouldn't HAVE to do that. They shouldn't have been labeled "racist" in the first place just because they don't like Obama's policies. You see this with every president. There will always be people who don't like a damn thing about the Commander in Chief and will criticize everything they do. We don't need to drag race into this, especially when it's clearly not a factor.

I disagree with that. The opposition to Obama has been way over the run-of-the-mill opposition to a president. And some posters in this thread have shown every bit of racism, especially when they have no arguments, or when they make assertions that turned to be factually wrong, and all you get is another baseless tirade. It's one thing to present your opposing views with sound arguments, it's another thing to present opinions that reek of hatred.

My problem with your argument is that you say their hatred against Obama, misplaced or not, stems from racism when we haven't seen that that is the case. It's possible to irrationally knock on someone without their race being a factor in it.

And I disagree about people going nuts on Obama way more than any other president (as far as the members of this forum are concerned). I remember when Bush was president and the general consensus here was that he should have been boiled in oil. If you don't like that people are making bad arguments against Obama, fine. But you can't just assume it's racially motivated. That's crap.

[Sargon The Grape]

My problem with your argument is that you say their hatred against Obama, misplaced or not, stems from racism when we haven't seen that that is the case. It's possible to irrationally knock on someone without their race being a factor in it.

And I disagree about people going nuts on Obama way more than any other president (as far as the members of this forum are concerned). I remember when Bush was president and the general consensus here was that he should have been boiled in oil. If you don't like that people are making bad arguments against Obama, fine. But you can't just assume it's racially motivated. That's crap.

In the interest of fairness, I should point out that in Sociology we learn about the concept of "covert, unaware" prejudice. This form of prejudice (often, but not always racism) is not actively on your mind, and you aren't necessarily aware of it. What it amounts to is that you internalize prejudices about a certain group that you've absorbed through media outlets, and express it in the form of passing harsher judgement when a member of that group does something you consider objectionable.

I don't personally believe that's what is going on here, but given the nature of that form of prejudice it was bound to get mentioned by someone eventually.

[Shiranu]

To be fair, I could see how one could possibly think that if it was only aimed at Obama. However I don't think you could call it "blatantly" racist and if it is a matter of race then we are also extremely racist against white people... because (on this forum anyways, I won't speak for Fox or your redneck cousin from the boonies) we are giving him equal criticism as Bush got. Therefor we must either be extremely racist against both blacks and whites or race is not the issue.

[LikelyToBreak]

Hijiri Byakuren wrote in part:

In the interest of fairness, I should point out that in Sociology we learn about the concept of "covert, unaware" prejudice.

While this is somewhat true, I also see people of being accused of talking in code.  Which to me means, "Whatever you say I really know what you mean is..."  In other words, "I know what you are really thinking.  And you are a no good scumbag for thinking what I know you are really thinking."  Just as if they could really know.

In fact, we don't really know what the hell Obama is/was thinking.  But, I do believe he is as capable of putting his foot in his mouth just as well as any of the rest of us.  But, as he seems to want to involve US forces in what I see as another quagmire, which doesn't seem to help the US any, I tend to believe he got lucky on this.  And I am glad for him having done so.  

I don't think allowing him to have the same foibles as the rest of us makes me a racist.  There are good reasons for labeling me a racist maybe, but I don't think this is one of them.

[Jason Harvestdancer]

To be fair, I could see how one could possibly think that if it was only aimed at Obama. However I don't think you could call it "blatantly" racist and if it is a matter of race then we are also extremely racist against white people... because (on this forum anyways, I won't speak for Fox or your redneck cousin from the boonies) we are giving him equal criticism as Bush got. Therefor we must either be extremely racist against both blacks and whites or race is not the issue.

That means we only like Spics, Chinks, Injuns, and Gooks.

Or perhaps I shouldn't post after that 4th glass of wine.

[Shiranu]

To be fair, I could see how one could possibly think that if it was only aimed at Obama. However I don't think you could call it "blatantly" racist and if it is a matter of race then we are also extremely racist against white people... because (on this forum anyways, I won't speak for Fox or your redneck cousin from the boonies) we are giving him equal criticism as Bush got. Therefor we must either be extremely racist against both blacks and whites or race is not the issue.

That means we only like Spics, Chinks, Injuns, and Gooks.

Or perhaps I shouldn't post after that 4th glass of wine.

Actually, out of all the ethnicities, "whites" were my least favorite... I didn't have very good experiences with them growing up and I probably was somewhat racist towards them until my late high school years.

[josephpalazzo]

My problem with your argument is that you say their hatred against Obama, misplaced or not, stems from racism when we haven't seen that that is the case. It's possible to irrationally knock on someone without their race being a factor in it.

And I disagree about people going nuts on Obama way more than any other president (as far as the members of this forum are concerned). I remember when Bush was president and the general consensus here was that he should have been boiled in oil. If you don't like that people are making bad arguments against Obama, fine. But you can't just assume it's racially motivated. That's crap.

In the interest of fairness, I should point out that in Sociology we learn about the concept of "covert, unaware" prejudice. This form of prejudice (often, but not always racism) is not actively on your mind, and you aren't necessarily aware of it. What it amounts to is that you internalize prejudices about a certain group that you've absorbed through media outlets, and express it in the form of passing harsher judgement when a member of that group does something you consider objectionable.

^^^^^^

This


Also, like porn, racism is difficult to prove but you know it when you see it.

[billhilly]

And you see it everywhere eh McCarthy?