Why do YOU hate religion?

[Plu]

I know. See above poster for more examples.

[brq]

---Look,cameras you mention are only the camera or have little additional qualities.But
upper side of your camera,there is one library -as big as one fist- able to store terabytes of information,
under your camera,there is two-holled smell detector,under it,there is machine that can tell you every taste in the world,left and right side of your camera,there is two sound sensor that is adjusted to hear only the specific sound frequencies so that you do not go crazy by hearing the sound of the movement of very little ant and the spinning of the stars.Moreover,these items are connected to huge system including trillions of cells that work in great harmony.Does not this masterpiece have a master even dud pictures have one painter to do them?

Eh, give us a few more decades and we'll build machines far more awesome. The internet is already quite a bit bigger and more amazing than the human brain. Supercomputers are at least equally complicated. Advanced computer software is as complex as the human mind.

You can sorta use your god of the gaps "masterpiece that is man" argument maybe for another generation before it joins the list of stuff that just gets you laughed at, like "the magnicent earth which is at the center of the universe".

If you let go of the idea of gods you can build things far greater than humans.

---Actually, here developing items better than human eyes is not the point that I want from you to concentrate on.Like you said here,whatever camera you are talking about not important whether it is better than human eyes or not is produced by somebody.Cables,chips and lenses do not come together by themselves to form one camera.Even very dud camera has one doer.Now,we look, human eye is not the worst eye at least,so it is created.Atoms constituting vessels,cornea and  pupil did not come together to form the eye..[/color]

[Plu]

Now,we look, human eye is not the worst eye at least,so it is created.

Take some highschool level biology, they'll explain why you are wrong. This is stuff we teach 16 year olds in my country. It's really simple, actually.

[brq]

We do not expect one's doing something if it does not have mind,conscious and power.Now,we suppose that atoms having no mind,conscious and power move to form one eye from embriyo to its last stance.This process mentioned in books are right but it does not mention about who constitute the eye,since atoms do not have self-control and volition,so they are worked by somebody.If God would want to create the eye in a sudden,he could.Then everyone must believe the God since they see it by their eyes.But if he creates it in some process,people can be tested.Like I said before,this world is the test world and people must be tested to see whether they know it from God or things that do not have any eye to see,ear to hear and mind to think.

[Hijiri Byakuren]

We do not expect one's doing something if it does not have mind,conscious and power.Now,we suppose that atoms having no mind,conscious and power move to form one eye from embriyo to its last stance.This process mentioned in books are right but it does not mention about who constitute the eye,since atoms do not have self-control and volition,so they are worked by somebody.If God would want to create the eye in a sudden,he could.Then everyone must believe the God since they see it by their eyes.But if he creates it in some process,people can be tested.Like I said before,this world is the test world and people must be tested to see whether they know it from God or things that do not have any eye to see,ear to hear and mind to think.

I can type in annoying colors, too.

[Hydra009]

Now,we look, human eye is not the worst eye at least,so it is created.

You're assuming what you're trying to prove.  Sad.  Pitiable, really.

Vessels,cornea and  pupil did not come together to form the eye..[/color]

If only there were some sort of scientific theory that explained how human features oh I dunno, evolved through gradual steps rather than instantly forming from scratch.

[youtube:10dlip00]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mb9_x1wgm7E[/youtube:10dlip00]

[Plu]

We do not expect one's doing something if it does not have mind,conscious and power.

You don't. We completed high school, so we do understand how this proces actually works. Ignorance is not a virtue, even though your religion tells you so.

[brq]

We do not expect one's doing something if it does not have mind,conscious and power.Now,we suppose that atoms having no mind,conscious and power move to form one eye from embriyo to its last stance.This process mentioned in books are right but it does not mention about who constitute the eye,since atoms do not have self-control and volition,so they are worked by somebody.If God would want to create the eye in a sudden,he could.Then everyone must believe the God since they see it by their eyes.But if he creates it in some process,people can be tested.Like I said before,this world is the test world and people must be tested to see whether they know it from God or things that do not have any eye to see,ear to hear and mind to think.

I can type in annoying colors, too.

:)

[Colanth]

That's a god that's beneath contenpt.  Why would a god that already knew the outcome of the test want to test people?

---Since although he knows,you do not know the outcome of it.

He's testing me so that I'll know what I'd do in that situation?  If the situation arises I'll know what I'll do, without being "tested".  If it never arises it doesn't matter what I would have done if it had arisen.  Your "logic" makes no sense.

One teacher can know one of his lazy student's case whether he can pass the exam or not by considering his situation.But if he would say to student you will not be able to pass the exam so I do not make the exam.Then the  student would say I want to enter exam,anyway.Likely,God makes exam to humans..

The teacher isn't all-knowing - your god is supposed to be.  And in school all students have to pass the same test.  In life not everyone has to "pass" the same situation.  More "logic" that doesn't make any sense.

Here again, you use something you know very little about (the physics and chemistry of fire) to explain something you don't understand.
No need for any god, since physics and chemistry explain it all.

---Physics,chemistry and other arms of science are just the laws explaning how the mechanism of the happening thing is.

Which is what you were doing - by claiming that the mechanism is a god.

But laws do not do action.

No, physical laws are the result of someone's observation and thinking.  There's no "law" that we can't go faster than the speed of light, and we'll somehow be punished if we do.  It's a FACT that we can't.  Someone figured out that for something to go faster than the speed of light it would have to weigh more than the entire universe - and that's impossible.  (Part of something can't weigh more than all of it.)  So now there's a "law" that nothing can go faster than the speed of light.  "Law", in the case of science, means something that someone figured out, it doesn't mean a law that some god made.

Enter some workplace.You will see writing on the wall saying"do not smoke otherwise you will get this much money penalty"which is law.If you smoke there and if there is noone.

See above.  Physical laws aren't like that at all.  We should have a completely different word for scientific law, so that people like you wouldn't get the idea that some god made up the law of gravity.

Again, chemistry completely explains liver function.

---Explaining chemistry's how it works does not mean that chemistry makes the work.

No, the chemicals, and how different chemicals react with each other, makes it work.

There is someone who gives this function to it and makes work.

There's NEVER been any evidence that this is true.  The evidence shows that certain chemicals react in certain ways with other chemicals due SOLELY to the nature of those chemicals.
 

Cameras can see far into the infrared and ultraviolet and they have no blind spots.  (Even an octopus eye doesn't have a blind spot.  Some god - he gave the octopus better eyes than he gave us.)

---Look,cameras you mention are only the camera or have little additional qualities.But
upper side of your camera,there is one library -as big as one fist- able to store terabytes of information, under your camera,there is two-holled smell detector,under it,there is machine that can tell you every taste in the world,left and right side of your camera,there is two sound sensor that is adjusted to hear only the specific  sound frequencies so that you do not go crazy by hearing the sound of the movement of very little ant and the spinning of the stars.

And where is the magnetic detector that allows us to tell where we are?  Even a little bird like a pigeon can do that.  Why didn't your magnificent god give us the same ability, instead of having people get lost for millions of years, until A MAN invented the compass?

Moreover,these items are connected to huge system including trillions of cells that work in great harmony.Does not this masterpiece have a master even dud pictures have one painter to do them?

Yes - and the "master" is called evolution.  No god is needed to explain any of it - unless you've already been brainwashed to believe that one is.  Rational adult human beings don't believe in gods.

It's a bunch of warlike nonsense written by a primitive warlord 1,400 years ago.

---It's false behavior that killing people without purpose.But do not yo protect yourself against those can kill you immediately when getting the first chance?

Even bugs do that - and they don't need a book to tell them to.

My prophet did not kill anyone in vain.He killed his enemies that always try to do the same to him.[/color]

He CREATED enemies first - THEN killed them.  If he had just stayed in his tent, and not tried to be the boss, none of that would have happened.  But you've been told otherwise, and you're not intelligent enough to understand how badly you've been lied to.

Why do I hate religion?  Because it takes people like you, who might have had the chance to grow up into intelligent adults, and turns them into moronic slaves.  And you're a perfect example of it.  They made you need to believe so badly that if Allah himself came down and told you, in person, that you're completely wrong about Islam, and religion in general, you'd argue with him.

[Colanth]

---Look,cameras you mention are only the camera or have little additional qualities.But
upper side of your camera,there is one library -as big as one fist- able to store terabytes of information,
under your camera,there is two-holled smell detector,under it,there is machine that can tell you every taste in the world,left and right side of your camera,there is two sound sensor that is adjusted to hear only the specific sound frequencies so that you do not go crazy by hearing the sound of the movement of very little ant and the spinning of the stars.Moreover,these items are connected to huge system including trillions of cells that work in great harmony.Does not this masterpiece have a master even dud pictures have one painter to do them?

Look at the humble mantis shrimp. It can see colors that humans cannot even imagine. Where we have focal point in each eye, mantis shrimp have thirty-six focal points in each eye.

You say that things like the human eye are proof that life had a designer. But if your Allah loves people, why would he give such eyes to a crustacean, and then give worse eyes to humans? If a man loves his son, does he feed his dogs better than the son?

Surely, if there is a god, it is a god of shrimp and not humans.  

---Intelligence is the best gift which is not that high in other animals.Would you choose to be human or mantis shrimp?

Your argument is that the eye is proof that there's a god.  Grace's argument is that humans have one of the worst eyes in the animal kingdom.  So you shift the argument to intelligence.

This is the fallacy of moving the goal posts, and it's not a logical argument.

---One's feeding dogs better than his son is up to him.

Likewise, Allah's giving better eyes to a shrimp than he gave to mankind is up to him.

You lose that one.

Like I said,it's exam.One could choose to build a building or exploding the building by putting a dynamite under it?It's up to him.In this case,one does not use properly the sense of compassion that God gives.

Then, by parallel logic, Allah shows US no compassion.

You lose again.

---Like I said before,if you accept one creator,than it must be the one.Is giving 100 man to one person's command is logical or giving them 100 different commanders.You can not direct them regularly.Every commander does what he wants and there would be chaos.

But if one doesn't accept a creator, like we don't, arguing "if we accept the creator" isn't going to convince us.

You lose again.

---Military's dresses are produced by one factory.It is the same apparel that one private dresses with the other privates'.If it would not be,everbody's dress would be different.Just the same way,It is the same God who creates eye of the shrimp with God creating your eye.Because, the items are same.They are both eyes,so produced by the same hands.[/color]

So shrimp outrank humans?

You lose again.

Go to your imam and tell him that you're having a discussion with atheists, trying to convince them that Allah actually exists, but you aren't smart enough to convince them to breathe, let alone that Allah is real, so you need him to give you some INTELLIGENT arguments.

Otherwise, we're in the position of arguing with an infant who doesn't have enough knowledge to do more than burp.  We're just playing with you.  The least well informed of us can make mincemeat out of your best arguments before we wake up in the morning.  And you're not even intelligent enough to realize what we're doing.  It's actually painful to see how badly you're being trounced - when you could have been raised by a SANE family and you could have been intelligent.

[Colanth]

---Actually, here developing items better than human eyes is not the point that I want from you to concentrate on.

Then why was it the point you made until people showed you how stupid it was?

Now,we look, human eye is not the worst eye at least,so it is created.

Non sequitur.  (That means that the conclusion doesn't follow from the premise.)

Atoms constituting vessels,cornea and  pupil did not come together to form the eye..

And your proof of that is????  Argumentum ad ignorantiam - "I don't know how it could be, so it can't be".  Now come on.  I KNOW that Turks can be more intelligent than that.  We have one Turkish woman posting here who could outthink you in her sleep.  So it's not the fact that you live in Turkey that makes you so uninformed.

Stop posting nonsense that an intelligent 5 year old can see the errors in.

[Colanth]

We do not expect one's doing something if it does not have mind,conscious and power.

Rotifers (little one-celled creatures) do things.  Even plants do things.  Plant cells that get less light grow faster than plant cells that get more light, so plants "turn" their leaves to face the sun.  Why do they grow that way?  Because plants that didn't got outcompeted by plants that did, because if you're a plant, turning your leaves to face the sun makes you stronger.  No god needed.

(If you're now going to argue that it needed a god to make cells work that way, it didn't, since growth DEPENDS on light.  So now you argue that a god had to make growth depend on light.  But that's just how growth works.  So ... you're going to end up claiming that for anything to exist, a god is needed.  So what's the name of the god that created your god?  Either your god exists, and needed another god to create it, or it didn't need to be created because it doesn't exist.  "God is special" is called "special pleading", and it's the "argument" of a not-too-bright 3 year old.)

Now,we suppose that atoms having no mind,conscious and power move to form one eye from embriyo to its last stance.This process mentioned in books are right but it does not mention about who constitute the eye

Because there is no "who".  Just as there is no "who" to make plants turn their leaves to the sun - it's just a natural process - based on the nature of the things involved in the process - in either case.

The ONLY "evidence" for any "who" is that YOU need to believe that there is one.  There's no ACTUAL evidence that there is one.  (Your not understanding how things work isn't evidence of a "who", it's just evidence of your lack of knowledge.)

[brq]

The teacher isn't all-knowing - your god is supposed to be. And in school all students have to pass the same test. In life not everyone has to "pass" the same situation. More "logic" that doesn't make any sense.

---Everyone will be judged according to his exam.If there is 7 question on 70,10 questions on 100.No injustice..

No, the chemicals, and how different chemicals react with each other, makes it work.

---If you do not mix them up in laboratory,would they react?Put chemicals with a 5 meter-space and wait 100 years
would anything happen by itself?You must do some action to start the reaction.Now,you look at the events and do not see someone mixing them up and say they happen by itself.But not seeing something does not mean it does not exist.Will you deny your mind or love since you do not see them?Although,the sun is kilometers away from us,it is always near to us by its light and heat.Although God,himself,does not reside in any place,he is always near to us by his name and adjective's transfigurations or effects-sorry I couldn't find a word to explain this term exactly-.He is always near eye when it is created-you say evolved- by his name "The Creator"'s transfiguration.He heals us when we are ill with his name "The Healer"'s transfiguration.  

Yes - and the "master" is called evolution. No god is needed to explain any of it - unless you've already been brainwashed to believe that one is. Rational adult human beings don't believe in gods.

---Evolution:).Does it have eye to see,ear to hear and brain to think?Even the human having brain,eye and ear is not able to bring about anything from absent,how could one term does all of works?

One more thing,nobody loses just because "you lose again" is said to him..[/color]

[brq]

We do not expect one's doing something if it does not have mind,conscious and power.

Rotifers (little one-celled creatures) do things.  Even plants do things.  Plant cells that get less light grow faster than plant cells that get more light, so plants "turn" their leaves to face the sun.  Why do they grow that way?  Because plants that didn't got outcompeted by plants that did, because if you're a plant, turning your leaves to face the sun makes you stronger.  No god needed.

(If you're now going to argue that it needed a god to make cells work that way, it didn't, since growth DEPENDS on light.  So now you argue that a god had to make growth depend on light.  But that's just how growth works.  So ... you're going to end up claiming that for anything to exist, a god is needed.  So what's the name of the god that created your god?  Either your god exists, and needed another god to create it, or it didn't need to be created because it doesn't exist.  "God is special" is called "special pleading", and it's the "argument" of a not-too-bright 3 year old.)

Now,we suppose that atoms having no mind,conscious and power move to form one eye from embriyo to its last stance.This process mentioned in books are right but it does not mention about who constitute the eye

Because there is no "who".  Just as there is no "who" to make plants turn their leaves to the sun - it's just a natural process - based on the nature of the things involved in the process - in either case.

The ONLY "evidence" for any "who" is that YOU need to believe that there is one.  There's no ACTUAL evidence that there is one.  (Your not understanding how things work isn't evidence of a "who", it's just evidence of your lack of knowledge.)

---If you see one broom cleaning the ground or pen writing on notebook,you look for one holding the broom or pen.Since broom and pen do not have -again- mind,eye,ear and conscious,so they can not do any work by themselves.You just look like a man saying pen writes by itself by saying objects(cells,plants whatever you call it) do work.There is one controlling them when they look like doing something or they are in action but we do not see.Like I said,not seeing something does not mean it does not exist.So there is one God.I'm sorry for you..[/color]

[Plu]

Put chemicals with a 5 meter-space and wait 100 years
would anything happen by itself?

Your sense of scale is off. Like, way off. Like, holy shit you cannot even begin to fathom how incredibly off your scale is.