Laws behind pregnancy.

[Hijiri Byakuren]

But i am 98% shore that everything that i have wrote could be understood just fine

Very little of what you write is understandable, because you hardly use any grammar. Remember what I said earlier about paragraphs and periods? I meant it. Use them.

[Bibliofagus]

Basically what a lot of people are saying in this thread is what the pope says until this day: Only abstinence is 100% reliable and therefore the people who are not abstinent should be made to shoulder the consequences. Other viable solutions be damned & no matter the circumstances. Facilitating the prevention of the situation in the first place? Hell not one post is about that.

[Hijiri Byakuren]

Basically what a lot of people are saying in this thread is what the pope says until this day: Only abstinence is 100% reliable and therefore the people who are not abstinent should be made to shoulder the consequences.

So far that I'm aware I am the only one who has said that, and I was clearly joking.

[Plu]

Basically what a lot of people are saying in this thread is what the pope says until this day: Only abstinence is 100% reliable and therefore the people who are not abstinent should be made to shoulder the consequences.

So far that I'm aware I am the only one who has said that, and I was clearly joking.

Myeah I didn't see anyone posting this either.

[Bibliofagus]

Smarzi says it on page 2. APA on page 1 or 2. Jason on page 3.

[Hijiri Byakuren]

Smarzi says it on page 2. APA on page 1 or 2. Jason on page 3.

I see posts about taking responsibility for where you put your penis. I am literally the only one who has mentioned abstinence, and again, I was clearly joking.

[Bibliofagus]

Smarzi says it on page 2. APA on page 1 or 2. Jason on page 3.

I see posts about taking responsibility for where you put your penis.

Agreed. My point is that the consequence of that, under current law & given the imperfectness of prevention, the only way for a guy around the risk of having a kid he does not want is abstinence.

Or a shift in thinking of course. I remember when condoms were new. 'Negotiating' whether to to use them or not would take away all the fun in sex (didn't happen), it wouldn't work because not everybody would use them (nowadays we are pissed at the pope for condemning their use).

I say this because I did suggest something to make it better in this discussion, a point that has been ignored: Make it easy&fast to have a legally binding agreement on pregnancy before having sex.

Call them legal condoms if you want. They would work.

[Johan]

Alright I've had just about enough of this bullshit.

Alex my boy, I've got some news for you. LIfe ain't fair. Never has been, never will be.

I get what you're whining about. A women accidentally gets pregnant then she has the right to decide whether or not the man has to pay for the next 18 years and he gets no say in it. I get it, its not fair. But life ain't fair kiddo. And here's the thing. The man DOES have a say in whether or not he pays for the next 18 years. He has a couple of ways to have a say in it actually. The first way is by deciding not to stick his pecker into any woman unless he's willing to accept the risk that he might be on the hook for an unplanned pregnancy and have no say in it.

I mean this isn't bait and switch here. Its not a surprise. We're not changing the rules after the fact on you. You knew that life wasn't fair before you took your cock out of your pants. Therefore by willingly taking your cock out of your pants, you are by default agreeing to the unfair deal which exists. If you don't like the deal, keep your cock in your pants. Period.

That is the first way you have a say in this matter. There is also a second way. You can break the law, disappear and be a deadbeat. Trust me when I tell you that just because the law says the father has to pay, does not mean that all fathers pay. There are a ton of guys who do not and never will. Don't ask me how they get away with it because I have no idea. But I can assure that I have known quite a few single moms in my day who were legally entitled to child support and did not receive it. It happens all the time.

well to tell you the truth English is my third language
But i am 98% sure that everything that i have wrote could be understood just fine

I am 100% sure your assumption is incorrect. Your writing is not at all easy to understand and there has been quite a bit of it that I could not follow at all. You might think that your writing is up to snuff but I assure that it is not. Not picking on you here, just stating a fact.

So lets review what we've learned in this thread.
1. Life isn't fair.
2. See #1

[Bibliofagus]

^^
See? Don't put in your 'pecker' if you don't want to run the risk of having a child you don't want. No matter the fact that only 1 in a 1000 fucks actually results in an accidental pregnancy.

[Jason78]

Smarzi says it on page 2. APA on page 1 or 2. Jason on page 3.

Well what else is there?  After the sperm has left the mans body, there's not a great deal you can do.

1) You can't abdicate responsibility.  It's still your DNA after all.
2) You can't terminate the pregnancy.  It's not growing in you.
3) You can't offer to bring the baby to term yourself.  Not yet anyway.

But this is just the way things are.  There's no way for a man to control what happens to his sperm after its left his body and there's no way for him to interfere in the subsequent processes as he is no longer necessarily involved.

After that we get onto post-natal care rights. I understand that even less.

[Fidel_Castronaut]

As I see it, the biggest issue is children.

I prefer puppies, if I'm honest. I find children quite ugly compared to adorable little puppies.

[Alex Shouwls]

Alright I've had just about enough of this bullshit.

Alex my boy, I've got some news for you. LIfe ain't fair. Never has been, never will be.

I get what you're whining about. A women accidentally gets pregnant then she has the right to decide whether or not the man has to pay for the next 18 years and he gets no say in it. I get it, its not fair. But life ain't fair kiddo. And here's the thing. The man DOES have a say in whether or not he pays for the next 18 years. He has a couple of ways to have a say in it actually. The first way is by deciding not to stick his pecker into any woman unless he's willing to accept the risk that he might be on the hook for an unplanned pregnancy and have no say in it.

I mean this isn't bait and switch here. Its not a surprise. We're not changing the rules after the fact on you. You knew that life wasn't fair before you took your cock out of your pants. Therefore by willingly taking your cock out of your pants, you are by default agreeing to the unfair deal which exists. If you don't like the deal, keep your cock in your pants. Period.

That is the first way you have a say in this matter. There is also a second way. You can break the law, disappear and be a deadbeat. Trust me when I tell you that just because the law says the father has to pay, does not mean that all fathers pay. There are a ton of guys who do not and never will. Don't ask me how they get away with it because I have no idea. But I can assure that I have known quite a few single moms in my day who were legally entitled to child support and did not receive it. It happens all the time.

well to tell you the truth English is my third language
But i am 98% sure that everything that i have wrote could be understood just fine

I am 100% sure your assumption is incorrect. Your writing is not at all easy to understand and there has been quite a bit of it that I could not follow at all. You might think that your writing is up to snuff but I assure that it is not. Not picking on you here, just stating a fact.

So lets review what we've learned in this thread.
1. Life isn't fair.
2. See #1

What a terrible thing to say!
Life isn't fair but lets don't do anything about it?
So why are you on atheist forum?
Religious people want to have god in your schools; well life is not fair
Nazis murdered 11.5 million jews; well life is not fair
Popes defended good 3% of catholic pedophiles; well life is not fair
lets just keep the flow going of unfairness. Because we cant really change a thing?
and as you see we did change a lot of things second we called it unfair,We manipulated system for better that is what humans do. Change things until we create world in which we don't need change i am talking transhumenism here :shock:
and i don't have this problem i don't even have that much sex life to have this problem/stop assuming that.
-I started this because: I hate when child doesn't have 100% support from both parents, and its parents fault to make a child in the world, in which he/she will not have a 100% chance of succeeding in life; list with things that we can control.
and i really feel sorry for you to think that we cant do anything about injustice. :-?

[Bibliofagus]

Smarzi says it on page 2. APA on page 1 or 2. Jason on page 3.

Well what else is there?  After the sperm has left the mans body, there's not a great deal you can do.

1) You can't abdicate responsibility.  It's still your DNA after all.
2) You can't terminate the pregnancy.  It's not growing in you.
3) You can't offer to bring the baby to term yourself.  Not yet anyway.

But this is just the way things are. There's no way for a man to control what happens to his sperm after its left his body and there's no way for him to interfere in the subsequent processes as he is no longer necessarily involved.

I agree 100%. It is why I think circumstances should play a bigger role in legal disputes concerning this specific topic. And that there should be a way to easily administrate these cirumstances before having sex.

After that we get onto post-natal care rights. I understand that even less.

It should not be as black and white as it is right now. It's like... you pay support, or you do not. There are no other flavours. In my country for instance there are people who pay child support for kids they are never allowed to see.

[Poison Tree]

Right off the bat, there are extremely rare cases where a man has been ordered to pay child support after a woman has become impregnated using his sperm which she obtained by rape of fraud. I'd hope that there would be widespread support for changing that--just as the only obstacle for a woman impregnated after being raped receiving full child support should be the low wages of prisoners. However, this is really a side issue, almost a distraction from the vast majority of cases.

I think that conceptions/children should not be treated as a special case, but rather should be looked at like any other type of . . . damages--that's a terrible word to use here (and "Senator X thinks a pregnant woman is damaged goods" is one clear reason why such a change will not happen) but I don't know of a better word to use and still get my point across.

People who go in for surgery--which has an inherent risk--and die or are injured do not all receive the same level of compensation. If the surgeon was drunk or unqualified or the hospital did a crappy job, then I'd expect they'd be forced to pay out the wazoo. However, if they did everything correctly, but things just went bad, then I'd expect the payout to be greatly reduced; perhaps eliminated entirely.
By the same token, if a guy is out there throwing his sperm around with willful neglect as to the consequences, then I think he should bear a much larger responsibility (financially and morally/ethically) for impregnating someone then a guy who takes every effort to have safe, child free sex, but something just goes wrong (broken condom, ect).

[Johan]

What a terrible thing to say!
Life isn't fair but lets don't do anything about it?

How about life isn't fair. Which means that no matter what we do, there will always be situations in which life isn't fair. Change what we can. Change what needs to be changed. This is not something that needs to be changed IMO. If you don't want to end up paying child support for a kids you never wanted, keep your dick in your pants. That is the responsible thing to do. To do otherwise would be irresponsible.

So what you are proposing is in fact a law which would allow men to act in an irresponsible way with no legal ramifications. Do you really think that legalizing irresponsible behavior is something that will make the world a better place? Because I certainly do not.

So why are you on atheist forum?

Because I'm an atheist.

Religious people want to have god in your schools; well life is not fair

Apples to oranges People can choose whether or not to practice their religion and they already have places to practice it if they choose to do so. Men cannot choose to gestate a fetus in their own body, only women can do that.

Nazis murdered 11.5 million jews; well life is not fair

Nazis? Really? That's your argument? Pathetic.

Popes defended good 3% of catholic pedophiles; well life is not fair
lets just keep the flow going of unfairness. Because we cant really change a thing?

We can change it. I just don't think we should.

and i don't have this problem i don't even have that much sex life to have this problem/stop assuming that.

Oh believe me, I already assumed you don't have much sex.

-I started this because: I hate when child doesn't have 100% support from both parents, and its parents fault to make a child in the world, in which he/she will not have a 100% chance of succeeding in life; list with things that we can control.

So you think there should be a law which allows men to get out of paying support for an unplanned child because you hate it when a child doesn't have 100% support of both parents? That makes about as much sense as a screen door on a submarine. And with that, my troll gauge just pegged the needle.