Will The Real Mark Dreher Stand Up!

[Solitary]

"You know you have created God in your own image when he hates all the same people you do." – Anne Lamotte

I recently had the displeasure of coming across the deranged preachments of a man named Mark Dreher (who runs a site at thenewholybible[dot]org).

Dreher believes he is the Second Coming of Christ, and has written a brand new Bible meant to supplant all other religious texts within the Abrahamic tradition - including the Tanakh (which Dreher mistakenly believes is synonymous with the Torah) and the Qur'an.

I personally believe Dreher is mentally ill. Normally, then, I would be content to wish the man well and leave him in peace. Mental illness isn't a choice, after all, and it can sometimes manifest in unsettling ways.

His writing bespeaks a cruel mind so steeped in narcissism, however, that I cannot personally accept that mental illness is at the root of it all.  

Dreher is miserable and mean to the point where I can only attribute these things to a deep character flaw – a flaw exacerbated almost beyond any average person's capacity to bear by his messianic delusions.

Because his dangerous, cruel advice and opinions are being offered as the very word of God, I have a duty to repudiate this for the sake of any of his unfortunate readers lucky enough to land here. (He has already collected at least one follower – a poor woman named Emily.)

The most expedient way to deal with his material – and it's hard to be expedient because there's just so damned much of it - is (1) to offer a brief deconstruction of Dreher's claims, in large part by examining his literary dependence on common cultural memes; (2) a comparative list displaying his material in parallel with Bible verses that contradict him, along my own commentary; and (3) a sampler of verses he has deliberately mangled, alongside legitimate translations.

My aim is to demonstrate as conclusively as possible that Mark Dreher is not the Messiah.

I. DREHER SHOWS A VERY HEAVY RELIANCE ON POPULAR MEDIA FOR HIS BELIEFS

One would expect the Messiah, who has access to the omnipotence of God, would be well-versed in politics and in matters of comparative theology. Such a man would have a comprehensive understanding of the world and an absolutely devastating arsenal of knowledge for use in debate. He would understand contemporary jargon, and could use it, but would also be capable of a whole lot more.  

Dreher, on the other hand, has nothing more than the political vocabulary of a Fox News junkie. Observe:

"A liberal is a "quasi atheist", an atheist in each and everyway but except one, admitting to it." – Dreher, in his article, "What is a liberal?"

"If you routinely agree with Satan's ideas then you would be defined as a liberal and if you routinely agree with God's ideas then you would be defined as a conservative..." – Ibid

"A liberal is a "typhoid Mary" full of Satanic worldly positions, you have damaged each and everyone that you ran into along the way with your silly left wing claptrap." – Ibid

"In God's eyes the term "Democrat" equates out to mean "filthy".  A filthy one.  And "filthy ones" do not go to Heaven." – Ibid

"And never has a more liberal left wing Godless spew come out of a person then when you are listening to the claptrap that comes out of a homo." – Dreher in his article, "Is Homosexuality a choice?"

"AIDs is a "selective flood" sent by the Father. It differs from the "global flood" as from Noah's time in that a selective flood is meant just to eliminate the most foul ones (homosexuals and IV drug users) that taint our society with their liberal godless deviant behavior, and to then leave the decent people unharmed for the most part." – Ibid

"A straight pro-life simply wants the same laws that were in place up until 1973 to be reinstalled. That is real pro-life. And the doctors do not need your advice on how to deliver babies. Keep that silly claptrap to yourself. You will hang if you put any caveat or some kind of "condition" on your so called pro-life stance. Stop deluding yourself my liberal friend." – Dreher in his article, Pro-Life with a caveat is really Pro-Choice and all the same penalties still apply to you."[I'll just add here that in addition to being an asshole, Dreher is also a flaming hypocrite for his telling other people to mind their own business.]

"The left wing morally bereft pro-choice "cancer cells" are to be hit with a dose chemo from the Father and the pool of the now identified evil ones among us will shrink like a tumor. And one day the very last of the "pro-choice baby stompers" will leave this earth to serve their universal sentence of "the million year scream, at the top of your lungs, in the lake of fire"" -- Ibid


Anyway, you get the idea: Dreher is nothing more than a slightly more deranged version of the average dittohead.

In another example of just how thoroughly beholden to the media he is, Dreher offers his breathless proclamation that the five best preachers in the United States today – and Dreher is supposedly God, so he should have a hefty list of little-known but much-loved candidates – are Joel Osteen, Charles Stanley, Joyce Meyers, TD Jakes, and Arnold Murray.

The first four are pastors of mega-churches with a lot of media exposure and varying Biblical philosophies. The last of them, who also gets quite a bit of media attention, is a proponent of "British Israelism" and the head of what some people believe is a cult.

So, yeah – God's own five best preachers aren't hidden far afield or working as military chaplains or missionaries; they're not back-woods men with small congregations: They're all rich and they're all famous. Funny: "God" seems to favor all the same preachers that average people – y'know, sinful, deluded complainers – are familiar with and enjoy.

II. DREHER AND THE BIBLE

Dreher relies heavily on the Bible to 'prove the legitimacy' of his claim, citing verses in Revelation to demonstrate how he meets the prophetic criteria to be considered part of the Godhead.

That said, he doesn't have a lot of respect for the text:

Concerning the Bible Itself

As I mention previously, Dreher claims his new Bible supersedes not only the existing Bible, but also the Tanakh and the Qur'an.

The 'New Holy Bible' replaces the 'Old Holy Bible'. It supersedes and it replaces the old Holy Bible. It supersedes and it replaces the Torah.  It supersedes and it replaces the Koran.

The "Old" Holy Bible – the very book on which he rests the basis for his claim to have authority – says, uh, no:


Matthew 24:23–27
"Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There he is!' do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. See, I have told you beforehand. So if anyone tells you, 'There he is, out in the wilderness,' do not go out; or, 'Here he is, in the inner rooms,' do not believe it. For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man."

Galatians 1:9
"As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed."



Concerning Prayer

Dreher speaks time and time again about how "God" supposedly despises "complainers," as well as people who ask for anything in their prayers:

...what are you going to say to God? What? Ask for something from God (hurt God), or give God an accolade (thank God)? It is your choice. Will it be a veiled insult hidden as a request? God can read between those lines my love. Let God give you "the things of life" according to his own schedule, which is set up for your own good. You will not speed things up in anyway by asking for them, you will simply provoke God and cause a delay.

God finds request prayers insulting, like you want to take over. And God does not grant them. Requests for healings, money, promotions, things, or prayers on someone's behalf, for love interests, even good luck can all be lost just because you ask for them. You are ticking God off and in reality simply making a complaint.


The "Old" Holy Bible says no:


Philippians 4:6
"...do not be anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God."

Ephesians 6:18
"...praying at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication. To that end keep alert with all perseverance, making supplication for all the saints..."

Romans 8:26
"Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words."

...and there are more where those came from.

Concerning Salvation

Dreher as a lot to say about salvation, and pretty much all of it boils down to that all humans should engage in fearful ass-kissing, even despite the fact it won't do most of them any good:


"And if in your life you have ever said anything good about a homo, you are already in a peck of trouble for having a decided lack of moral fiber within you. Your file in "the book of life" is about ruined already. And you have no recourse to fix it." – Dreher in his article, "Is Homosexuality a choice?"]

"The 'Three Main Blocks' to you going to Heaven[:] Complainers (about anything, to anybody, even just in your own mind), 2. Pro-Choice, 3. Pro-Homosexuals. These three things are the most common blocks that would definitively remove any chance of you going to Heaven in the afterlife." – Dreher in his article, "The "Three Main Blocks" to you going to Heaven."


The 'Old' Holy Bible says otherwise:

1 Corinthians 6:9-11
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, 10nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.


Contrast the above with Dreher's claim that once someone experiments with homosexual sex, he's doomed for all eternity no matter what he does:

Are you the type of person that can still push past that and still commit this horrible sin? If you fail that critical test, if you do it the first time, the Father then considers you like so much "spoiled fruit" and he is very afraid that you will reproduce. He wants your genetic line stopped for the good of society as a whole. – Dreher in his article, "Is Homosexuality a choice?"

Here are some more verses that put the lie to Dreher's claim:



Luke 10:25-28
And behold, a lawyer stood up to put him to the test, saying, "Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" He said to him, "What is written in the Law? How do you read it?" And he answered, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself." And he said to him, "You have answered correctly; do this, and you will live."

Luke 5:32
"I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance."

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

Isaiah 64:6
But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.


Concerning Abortion

The only Bible verse that speaks, perhaps, of abortion is a notoriously ambiguous passage in Exodus 21:

When men strive together and hit a pregnant woman, so that her children come out, but there is no harm, the one who hit her shall surely be fined, as the woman's husband shall impose on him, and he shall pay as the judges determine. But if there is harm,[a] then you shall pay life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. (22-25)


From that passage, which Dreher later mangles deliberately, he gets this:

PS:  Are you pro-life but you have some kind of caveat or condition on your so called pro-life stance? That is a trick from Satan. Let your yes be yes and your no be no. KEEP SILENT on any and all "caveats". That is not your business. God already spontaneously aborts almost all babies with any form of serious birth defect, that is what a miscarriage is. Let God choose less you sentence yourself to Hell. And victims of rape should get a D and C or be given a dose of the "morning after pill". These options will not compromise your eternal fate.

"Pro-life except if the baby is stuck half way in, or pro-life except if the mother's life is endangered. Well how noble of you. You idiot.


Yes, you did read that right: Dreher claims at once that there should be no caveats (even while managing to include a swipe at the disabled), and says abortion is wrong even in such cases as the mother's life is in danger – and yet, amid all his bilge, he hides a caveat of his own, saying it's all right for women who are raped to have abortions (but only if there is some doubt about whether or not they're pregnant: They can take the "Morning After Pill," or get an D&C whether they actually need one or not.)

It's also darkly amusing to see Dreher try to square his Social Darwinism (also discussed elsewhere in this post) and his almost overwhelming desire to see eugenics instituted with his pro-life pretentions. With that tension in mind, he writes:

Why did God allow 53 million American babies to be killed in the abortion Holocaust? It is because in the first place, it is only the 'moral degenerates' among us who are putting their jack boots to the skulls of their inconvenient children. The simple truth is that 'evil begets evil'. Moral degenerates beget more moral degenerates.


III. HOW DREHER MANGLES VERSES

As I mentioned earlier, Dreher likes to creatively edit other people's work – e.g., Bible verses, and verses from books in the apocrypha – to suit his own agenda.
I found a couple of doozies, and have listed them below along with the proper translations.

As part of his argument against abortion, Dreher presents a notoriously ambiguous passage from Exodus – except he has altered it in such a way that his version says what he wants it to say:

Dreher's version of Exodus 21:22-25
And in case men should struggle with each other and they really hurt a pregnant woman and her child is born but no fatal accident occurs, he is to have damages imposed upon him without fail according to what the owner of the woman may lay upon him; and he must give it through the justices. 23 But if a fatal accident should occur, then you must give soul for soul, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 branding for branding, wound for wound, blow for blow.

A proper translation of Exodus 21:22-25 (ESV):

When men strive together and hit a pregnant woman, so that her children come out, but there is no harm, the one who hit her shall surely be fined, as the woman's husband shall impose on him, and he shall pay as the judges determine. But if there is harm,[a] then you shall pay life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.

[a]"... so that her children come out and it is clear who was to blame, he shall be fined as the woman's husband shall impose on him..."

In his obsessive rush to condemn homosexuals, Dreher even appeals to the non-canonical Second Book of Enoch to 'prove' his point. Since the text doesn't precisely say that, however, instead probably condemning the Greek practice of pederasty, Dreher merely removed one key word from the text.

Dreher's version of (the non-canonical) 2 Enoch 10:1-3:

That whole place is everywhere fire, and everywhere there is frost and ice, thirst and shivering, while the bonds are very cruel, and the punishing angels fearful and merciless, bearing angry weapons, merciless torture, and I said: Woe, woe, how very terrible is this place. And those men said to me: This place, O Enoch, is prepared for those who dishonor God, who on earth practice sin against nature, which is corruption after the sodomite fashion.


Two kegitimate versions of the same passage:

2 Enoch 10:1-3
AND those two men led me upon to the Northern side, and showed me there a very terrible place, and there were all manner of tortures in that place: cruel darkness and unillumined gloom, and there is no light there, but murky fire constantly flameth aloft, and there is a fiery river coming forth, and that whole place is everywhere fire, and everywhere there is frost and ice, thirst and shivering, while the bonds are very cruel, and the angels fearful and merciless, bearing angry weapons, merciless torture, and I said: 'Woe, woe, how very terrible is this place.'
   And those men said to me: This place, O Enoch, is prepared for those who dishonour God, who on earth practise sin against nature, which is child-corruption after the sodomitic fashion, magic-making, enchantments and devilish witchcrafts, and who boast of their wicked deeds, stealing, lies, calumnies, envy, rancour, fornication, murder, and who, accursed, steal the souls of men, who, seeing the poor take away their goods and themselves wax rich, injuring them for other men's goods; who being able to satisfy the empty, made the hungering to die; being able to clothe, stripped the naked; and who knew not their creator, and bowed down to soulless (sc. lifeless) Gods, who cannot see nor hear, vain gods, who also built hewn images and bow down to unclean handiwork, for all these is prepared this place amongst these, for eternal inheritance. -- The Forgotten Books of Eden, by Rutherford H. Platt, Jr.

2 Enoch 10:3
And those men said to me: This place, O Enoch, is prepared for those who dishonour God, who on earth practice sin against nature, which is child-corruption after the sodomitic fashion, magic-making, enchantments and devilish witchcrafts, and who boast of their wicked deeds, stealing, lies, calumnies, envy, rancour, fornication, murder, and who, accursed, steal the souls of men, who, seeing the poor take away their goods and themselves wax rich..." -- Translated from the Slavonic by W. R. Morfill, M.A.

Dreher did not indicate he had made changes to the passages discussed above, and nor does he offer any explanation for them. Not only is he cruel, then, but untrustwory – and somehow I doubt a mean, untrustworthy human being as also  an avatar of God.  
 




 
 

 :rollin:  :rollin:  :rollin:    But so sad.   "You know you have created God in your own image when he hates all the same people you do." – Anne LaMotte      Solitary the iconoclast from hell.  

[surly74]

were we supposed to read this?

[Solitary]

were we supposed to read this?

No! I just do it for my health. I wanted everyone to know who our 'local" troll really is if they haven't figured it out for themselves. Is there a problem with that?  :-?  Solitary

[Icarus]

were we supposed to read this?

No! I just do it for my health. I wanted everyone to know who our 'local" troll really is if they haven't figured it out for themselves. Is there a problem with that?  :-?  Solitary

It's kind of pointless considering he's already been banned.

[surly74]

were we supposed to read this?

No! I just do it for my health. I wanted everyone to know who our 'local" troll really is if they haven't figured it out for themselves. Is there a problem with that?  :-?  Solitary

you want to pick fights with people that have been banned...knock your self out tough guy.

[Mister Agenda]

Thanks for the info, Sol. I knew he was on the loony side, but thought he was just a troll. I couldn't follow any of his links so I had no idea of the level of crazy.

[_Xenu_]

Thanks for the info, Sol. I knew he was on the loony side, but thought he was just a troll. I couldn't follow any of his links so I had no idea of the level of crazy.

Looney Tunes even has his own subReddit, of which he seems to be the only inhabitant.

http://www.reddit.com/r/MarkDreher/

[Solitary]

were we supposed to read this?

No! I just do it for my health. I wanted everyone to know who our 'local" troll really is if they haven't figured it out for themselves. Is there a problem with that?  :-?  Solitary

It's kind of pointless considering he's already been banned.

I wasn't aware of that Einstein, and just how does that make it pointless? Bite me! Solitary

[Solitary]

were we supposed to read this?

No! I just do it for my health. I wanted everyone to know who our 'local" troll really is if they haven't figured it out for themselves. Is there a problem with that?  :-?  Solitary

you want to pick fights with people that have been banned...knock your self out tough guy.

I wasn't aware he was banned. Don't project your inclinations on to me! And how in the hell does that post mean I want to pick fights. Also, I'm not a tough guy being 71 years old, but I am wiser than a young punk that does look for fights. If you don't like it blow me!    Solitary

[Solitary]

Thanks for the info, Sol. I knew he was on the loony side, but thought he was just a troll. I couldn't follow any of his links so I had no idea of the level of crazy.

Thanks! I guess you are one that likes to know things instead of being ignorant Jack Asses.  :rollin:  :rollin:  :rollin:  Solitary

[Icarus]

I wasn't aware of that Einstein, and just how does that make it pointless? Bite me! Solitary

Because he was banned at 12:40, then you posted at 1:58 on that same thread, right after aitm said he banned him. You made this thread at 2:28, 30 minutes after you posted in his thread. I think it's a fair assumption to think you were aware of the fact he was banned. This thread is pointless because anyone who wanted to read his posts can go to the original thread: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2138

[surly74]

I wasn't aware he was banned. Don't project your inclinations on to me! And how in the hell does that post mean I want to pick fights. Also, I'm not a tough guy being 71 years old, but I am wiser than a young punk that does look for fights. If you don't like it blow me!    Solitary

well...

now you know.

i haven't been called a young punk

in a while.

[stromboli]

I get the feeling you have a lot of time on your hands.....  :-k

[Solitary]

I wasn't aware he was banned. Don't project your inclinations on to me! And how in the hell does that post mean I want to pick fights. Also, I'm not a tough guy being 71 years old, but I am wiser than a young punk that does look for fights. If you don't like it blow me!    Solitary

well...

now you know.

i haven't been called a young punk

in a while.

   Read my post again, I never said "you" were a young punk. I was referring to you calling me a tough guy that wants to pick fights. I guess if the shoe fits wear it in your case.  :rollin: Solitary

[Solitary]

I wasn't aware of that Einstein, and just how does that make it pointless? Bite me! Solitary

Because he was banned at 12:40, then you posted at 1:58 on that same thread, right after aitm said he banned him. You made this thread at 2:28, 30 minutes after you posted in his thread. I think it's a fair assumption to think you were aware of the fact he was banned. This thread is pointless because anyone who wanted to read his posts can go to the original thread: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2138

What? I started this post, and it is not on the same thread. I posted after aitm said he was banned, I still don't see his post where he says he was banned!) Did you ever think I never read his post that he was banned, I didn't even look at the other original thread before posting this topic 30 minutes later. So how could I have known? To top it off you even say at the bottom someone can go to the original thread. However if you actually read my post here it isn't the same as what I posted on the original  thread.  :roll:  Do you even realize how stupid what you wrote here is you pedantic jerk?    Solitary