Peeves

[Plu]

they harm nobody

Except probably the people whose business they're vandalising or kidnapping the animals from.

[Farroc]

Okay. They physically harm nobody.

[Plu]

Except maybe the guys who lose their jobs and then their house and stuff because they can no longer pay mortgages or buy food.

[Farroc]

Physical Harm

harm (härm) n. 1. Physical or psychological injury or damage

phys·i·cal (f z-k l) adj. 1. a. Of or relating to the body as distinguished from the mind or spirit

Losing a job or house is not physical harm.

[Plu]

Generally speaking, people who have to claim they "phsyically harm nobody" are considered assholes by society, and rightly so. :) You can easily destroy someone's whole life while "physically harming nobody".

[PickelledEggs]

Yea, that's why I said Vegans / PETA activists

Some vegans (not all) I know act like they are PETA members throwing wounded puppies in my face.

You have the right idea if you actually do something about what means something to you instead of scaring everyone around you to do it for you.

[Farroc]

It is better for a few people to be without a career but in good health than for millions to be slaughtered held captive, and experimented on. And what society thinks of a group is irrelevant. Every revolutionary group that changed the world for the better was once thought of by the majority as "assholes".(I'm not using this to prove ALF is changing the world for the better, I'm merely saying that your remark about ALF being thought of as assholes is irrelevant.)

[Plu]

Every revolutionary group also harmed loads of people. If you claim that they "harm nobody", you are full of shit. Saying you believe the harm is worth it because of their goals is one thing, but saying they do no harm is simply being ignorant.

It's pretty much falling in with the line who are opposed to killing animals but have no problems with eating hamburgers. You know, the people you get so peeved about? At least be man enough to admit that you don't care that people lose their jobs and livelihood if it means improving the living conditions of animals. People might not agree with you, but at least you're being honest.

[Farroc]

Yea, that's why I said Vegans / PETA activists

Some vegans (not all) I know act like they are PETA members throwing wounded puppies in my face.

You have the right idea if you actually do something about what means something to you instead of scaring everyone around you to do it for you.

Thank you. I know at times it seems like all vegans are only vegans so they can shove it in your face, but very few people are committed enough to completely change their entire lifestyle just so they can be smug. Most are honestly just trying to make the world a better place, but because of the controversial nature of the issue, and the fact that being a vegan, by definition, means you think that you're doing a good thing that most other people aren't, it's very easy to mistake caring vegans for self-righteous ones.

[Farroc]

Yea, that's why I said Vegans / PETA activists

Some vegans (not all) I know act like they are PETA members throwing wounded puppies in my face.

You have the right idea if you actually do something about what means something to you instead of scaring everyone around you to do it for you.

Thank you. I know at times it seems like all vegans are only vegans so they can shove it in your face, but very few people are committed enough to completely change their entire lifestyle just so they can be smug. Most are honestly just trying to make the world a better place, but because of the controversial nature of the issue, and the fact that being a vegan, by definition, means you think that you're doing a good thing that most other people aren't, it's very easy to mistake caring vegans for self-righteous ones. Especially on the internet.

[Farroc]

At least be man enough to admit that you don't care that people lose their jobs and livelihood if it means improving the living conditions of animals. People might not agree with you, but at least you're being honest.

I never denied that ALF does harm peoples livelihoods, and I didn't mean to be unclear. I was just stating that Non-violence toward sentient beings(Humans included) is a huge part of ALF's philosophy. And people losing their jobs is, in my opinion, a necessary sacrifice.

[Farroc]

Hey, how do I delete my my first double post? The x is missing for some reason.

[Plu]

"Harm" and "Hurt" are way too blanket terms to be used like that. You should probably include the extra explanation of "no direct physical" in your explanations if you want to come across as honest. But good to hear that you're willing to say that people losing their jobs is a neccesary sacrifice. I can get behind people who are willing to accept the consequences of the stuff they believe in, even if I don't agree with what they believe in.

Just as long as you're not the kind of person who wants to feed their cat vegan food as well. That's just tormenting the poor cat instead of the poor animal going into its food.

[PickelledEggs]

Exactly.  And I would even go as far as saying that I agree with what they want to do for animal rights. I just have other things that for me,  are a bigger priority.

All I'm saying is that i wouldn't push someone to care about something I care about if they don't want to... And I ask for the same in return.  If you care about any the then go out and take care of it. Because whoever isn't actually active in a  cause they believe in, it's hot air. If you care about the homeless getting food,  volunteer.  same goes for animal rights,  human rights....  All of it

And that is where you have the right idea.

[Farroc]

Thanks. If you do ever get interested in veganism, or at least want to view some of the main arguments, I'd recommend checking out the ALF FAQ. It's very well written and covers almost everything.