New here with a question

[streetskaterln91]

Hi, I just joined for one main reason. Ever since I came out to my family as an atheist my grandma periodically sends me emails to discuss certain topics. The problem is the points she tries making are so off base I have trouble following her thought process, and even more trouble finding a response. I was wondering if it's appropriate here to post her emails here to get some extra opinions before I respond. I often don't respond, and I have little free time to research topics lately so I find myself stuck trying to sort through these things.  Here is the last one she sent:  

In today's world, I have a relative question:  do you know why all the
countries that surround little Israel today are so against them?  Is it
political?  Economical?  ???   FYI there is a true historical answer based
on Scripture.



Abraham had two sons. Ishmael and Isaac.    Ishmael was about 13 yrs older
than Isaac, but Isaac was the son who was promised to Sara to bring forth
the nation of Israel through HIS geneology.  Ishmael was jealous.  He
started trouble all the time.  He was sent OUT of the land back then and
because of his jealousy he came against his brother and the "Muslim nations"
were born throughout the generations which include the nations surrounding
Israel today.  Guess what?  They are STILL fighting each other. the
geneology of Isaac's family and the geneology of Ishmael's family.   So why
are they against Israel and want that land?   Because of jealousy!  They HATE the Jews !   (but notice how God protects that little tiny country
because long ago, He made a vow to Abraham to give him that land. and more.. (to come yet).



This onewas relatively short luckily, I'll post more if I get good feedback from this. I just have trouble finding responses.. it seems she can be incorrect or flawed on many levels and I have trouble answering. Thanks to everyone who replies

[Hijiri Byakuren]

Welcome. I'll be happy to try my hand at responding to your grandmother's email here.

In today's world, I have a relative question:  do you know why all the
countries that surround little Israel today are so against them?  Is it
political?  Economical?  ???   FYI there is a true historical answer based
on Scripture.

The simple answer is that it's religious differences mixed with anti-colonial backlash. Most Israelis today are descended from European or American Jews, and the Arab world at some level fears that they will be colonized just like so many other parts of the world.

Abraham had two sons. Ishmael and Isaac.    Ishmael was about 13 yrs older
than Isaac, but Isaac was the son who was promised to Sara to bring forth
the nation of Israel through HIS geneology.  Ishmael was jealous.  He
started trouble all the time.  He was sent OUT of the land back then and
because of his jealousy he came against his brother and the "Muslim nations"
were born throughout the generations which include the nations surrounding
Israel today.  Guess what?  They are STILL fighting each other. the
geneology of Isaac's family and the geneology of Ishmael's family.   So why
are they against Israel and want that land?   Because of jealousy!  They HATE the Jews !

Apparently your grandmother believes in the Koran, since that's the only place she could have possibly gotten that extra story about Ishmael. Either way it's bullshit. These nations are fighting because the Jews were mostly driven out of the Middle East, only for Europeans practicing their beliefs to arrive as colonists many centuries later.

(but notice how God protects that little tiny country
because long ago, He made a vow to Abraham to give him that land. and more....

No, the United States of America protects that country, and that protection has been in question for a few years now. If they were really under the protection of a supreme being, Israel wouldn't have needed to be re-constituted (ergo, it would never have dissolved in the first place).

[Jason78]

It wasn't even a country til after 1948.

[streetskaterln91]

Thanks so far guys, that's a big help and a good start for me to formulate a response. More opinions welcome!

[streetskaterln91]

By the way, anybody should feel free to message me if you'd like to also lend a hand in the future. She doesn't email me as much lately, but when she does you can see how off base she can be lol I'm newly atheist and even after months of research I just sometimes have trouble. But if anyone is willing to help me long term (and simply talk as well) please message me

[Youssuf Ramadan]

In today's world, I have a relative question:  do you know why all the
countries that surround little Israel today are so against them?  Is it
political?  Economical?  ???   FYI there is a true historical answer based
on Scripture.

Apparently it is ok for Israel to pursue a genocidal war against Arabs in the occupied territories because some cosmic superwizard promised the land to some tribe of goat-wranglers 3000+ years ago.  Riiiiight......  

Israel has been squealing about being oppressed by neighbouring countries despite the fact they were given their own country to live in and then decided it would be quite acceptable to invade Palestine, Syria and southern Lebanon to make their land bigger - all in the name of the Greater Israel that good old Yahweh promised them.  In military terms it's a bit like the USA squealing about being oppressed by Andorra. AIPAC and the Christian Zionists have massive sway in US politics (thanks to massive campaign contributions and wingnut religious beliefs) and the military-industrial complex makes billions of dollars a year out of the whole Israel deal.  Pretty much all of Israel's massive arsenal of weapons is bought and paid for by US tax payers - for the military-industrial bods it's a free lunch where they can convert tax dollars straight into private profit for their shareholders, much like the way the USA seems to love war.  Killing is great business for the top guys in business and politics.  And on top of that, USA wants an attack dog in the Middle East, and having Israel as a the biggest military presence there and a nice forward base makes it easier to keep an eye on them pesky Arabs who are sat on top of the oil that USA considers as its own resource.

As for the Christian Zionists, they're waiting for the time when all the Jews are nicely sat in Israel, then Jeezus comes back and has a bit of celebrity-deathmatch fisticuffs with Satan on the plains of Tal Megiddo  then they all convert to Christianity and ride off into the sunset of heaven on Earth.  I wish I could tell you that I was making this shit up, but unfortunately I can't.  

I'm sure your grandmother is a lovely lady, but maybe she ought to stick to baking cookies.  Sometimes it's better to avoid the whole mess rather than upset the apple cart.  My gran was pretty racist, but after learning that me and my sister both had friends of pretty much every creed, colour, religion and orientation she piped down a little.

[the_antithesis]

You're a sk8r boy? See you l8r, boy.

[Youssuf Ramadan]

You're a sk8r boy? See you l8r, boy.

Hey Avril.... come here often?  

[PickelledEggs]

First, WELCOME!

It wasn't even a country til after 1948.

But yeah, I can't even count how many nations there are that transition from being an actual country to being stateless (and vice versa)

Most are stateless.


It's a property and a control issue. Everyone is fighting over who has the most land and what they can do or believe in it. The other thing is that since in every religion one of the base principals is to spread it like a virus, who ever owns the land gets a say in your choice of what religion you can believe in or them killing you instead.

[the_antithesis]

You're a sk8r boy? See you l8r, boy.

Hey Avril.... come here often?  

Who?

[streetskaterln91]

Lol. I stuck with my middle school screen name, yes.

[Youssuf Ramadan]

Lol. I stuck with my middle school screen name, yes.

Oops, I forgot to say welcome.  Welcome to the forum, streetskaterln91.  

[the_antithesis]

In today's world, I have a relative question:  do you know why all the
countries that surround little Israel today are so against them?  Is it
political?  Economical?  ???   FYI there is a true historical answer based
on Scripture.

Uh, actually it probably has more to do with the founding of the nation of Israel after WWII and the displacement of all those Palestinians from their fucking homes. kind of like if the US government gave in to the numerous Indian land claims and kicked millions of citizens out of their homes and gave it to the Native Americans. Lots of pissed off people. You don't need a dusty book to explain this bullshit.

[Mister Agenda]

Welcome, skater!

[Colanth]

"Ishmael was jealous.  He started trouble all the time.  He was sent OUT of the land back then and because of his jealousy he came against his brother and the 'Muslim nations' were born"

Ishmael was inserted post-facto into Islam.  There's absolutely nothing in the OT about Islam.

Religions do this all the time - they take something from a book or a belief that has nothing to do with them and claim that it foretells them.  Like Isaiah foretelling Jesus, when it actually tells the story of a war-like savior, who was most certainly NOT named Yeshua, who leads the Jews into a redeeming war against their enemies.  Similarly, Moslems are most certainly not the genetic descendents of Ishmael.  (Islam was created in the same way as most religions are - by a con man who wanted to be a big shot.)