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Can "something from nothing" prove God?

Started by victormarte, February 19, 2013, 05:19:49 PM

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Brian37

Quote from: "WitchSabrina"
Quote from: "Brian37"
Quote from: "WitchSabrina"Whu... I..... but ...the...... oh..........  um ..............




nope.......can't do it.

Eastwood, is that you talking to empty chairs again?

Ouch - comparing me to Eastwood.  Oh the pain. The agony.
ROFL

It's ok we'll get you some help. He he.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers." Obama
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victormarte

I think asking this question just made me more deeply confused... >_<

Brian37

Quote from: "victormarte"I think asking this question just made me more deeply confused... >_<

Confused about what? There is no god, nothing to be confused about.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers." Obama
Poetry By Brian37 Like my poetry on Facebook Under BrianJames Rational Poet and also at twitter under Brianrrs37

WitchSabrina

Quote from: "victormarte"I think asking this question just made me more deeply confused... >_<

It's called "God of Gaps" - when there are open holes left without (yet) explanation.
Some of us don't necessarily fill those empty holes with 'therefore God".  We like better answers than that.  Some of us accept that while we may not know everything, filling in the gaps with an assumption simply isn't good enough.  Some of us are prepared and fully expect for science to answer all the questions someday.  
It's not a crime to think or say "I don't know."  And it's not some warped assumption that the individual saying 'not sure' or 'don't know yet' indicates any lack of intelligence.  In fact, waiting for Real information as opposed to accepting No information or false information --is the smarter of the two.

hope this helps
I am currently experiencing life at several WTFs per hour.

PghPanther

"Something from nothing" is the wrong question.................

Science is documenting over time the fact that nothing as as pure concept does not exist in physical reality.

Quantum mechanics and the foaming virtual particles of matter/energy in a quantum vacuum nothingness is revealing itself to be the reality that would nullify such a question.

The question would then become........how does a quantum state of something fluctuate into a physical reality (aka universe)

Of course this is still work in progress but we are really finding mathmetical constructs and confirmation through experimentation. LHC is as huge contributor to such evidence.

Quantum theory has been around since the 1920's but is very slow to become known by the lay public...........it is a very difficult and counter intuiative to common sense that despite its bizarre attributes is one of the most successful theory in predictiablity in all of science.

Without knowing about quantum reality and its effects there would be no computers, lasers, tv monitors etc..........

If the unstable quantum vacuum is where all comes from.......then it is both eternal and unstable leading to fluctuations of universes..............which would not have a first cause nor any intelligent design.

Regardless.........even if some aspect of this are not accurate and revised by new evidence from scientific discoveries........the idea of placing God in the role of a quantum vacuum is trying to solve one mystery with another mystery.......

It is better to leave out the mystery of a supernatural entity and look for scientific evidence to the emergent mystery of the universe that we can define and predict.

Navynukeman

Quote from: "victormarte"Had a little debate with my christian friend and we started talking about science's new findings. I mentioned that I watched lectures and read things about us finding a thing dubbed "we now know that something can come from nothing." He then said, couldn't that prove the existence of god? I know there isn't too much info on this topic, but is it a possibility?
No because then you would still have to explain where god came from...

bennyboy

Quote from: "Navynukeman"
Quote from: "victormarte"Had a little debate with my christian friend and we started talking about science's new findings. I mentioned that I watched lectures and read things about us finding a thing dubbed "we now know that something can come from nothing." He then said, couldn't that prove the existence of god? I know there isn't too much info on this topic, but is it a possibility?
No because then you would still have to explain where god came from...

That's right.

The real question isn't where the universe comes from.  It's why existence exists.  It doesn't really matter WHAT that magical "X" quantity is that you say created everything: that question always lingers: "Why does/did X exist?"
Insanity is the only sensible response to the universe.  The sane are just making stuff up.

Davka

Quote from: "dawiw"You cannot demonstrate nothing we don't have a nothing.

[youtube:2vaixnf4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNFum0P5pP0[/youtube:2vaixnf4]

ApostateLois

When you say "something from nothing," what exactly do you mean? As Panther said, the concept of "nothing," meaning a lack of any physical thing at all, doesn't exist in reality. Unfortunately, that is the kind of  "nothing" that Christians mean.

However, if they are going by the Bible, then even Genesis does not say that God created everything from nothing. There WAS something, but it was "unformed" and "chaotic." Earth is described as already existing, with God hovering over the deep (the world ocean, a common concept in religions). There is no mention of nothingness or a cosmic vacuum or whatever. Just as humans can't make something unless something else is already there, so God was limited to making things from already-existing things.
"Now we see through a glass dumbly." ~Crow, MST3K #903, "Puma Man"

victormarte

Quote from: "Navynukeman"
Quote from: "victormarte"Had a little debate with my christian friend and we started talking about science's new findings. I mentioned that I watched lectures and read things about us finding a thing dubbed "we now know that something can come from nothing." He then said, couldn't that prove the existence of god? I know there isn't too much info on this topic, but is it a possibility?
No because then you would still have to explain where god came from...

Someone could say "hey i told you, god was just there because he is something from nothing"

Plu

But then the whole argument of "where did everything came from?" falls apart, because if god (who is something) can come from nothing, so can the universe, thus rendering the whole argument of "something cannot come from nothing, therefor god" moot.

SGOS

Quote from: "victormarte"Had a little debate with my christian friend and we started talking about science's new findings. I mentioned that I watched lectures and read things about us finding a thing dubbed "we now know that something can come from nothing." He then said, couldn't that prove the existence of god? I know there isn't too much info on this topic, but is it a possibility?

No, it doesn't prove a thing, other than something can come from nothing. There would be nothing in that discovery that points to God.  The cause could be something other than God.  What your friend is saying is

Something can't come from nothing.
But something did come from nothing.
Therefore, God exists.

The logic fails because "Something can't come from nothing" is an assumption, but the disovery itself proves it to be false.  Any gibberish that follows doesn't mean anything.  But that isn't the only fallacy there.  The thing is fucked up on many levels.

Bibliofagus

Quote from: "SGOS"The logic fails because "Something can't come from nothing" is an assumption, but the disovery itself proves it to be false.

Can this be put in our logo?
Quote from: \"the_antithesis\"Faith says, "I believe this and I don\'t care what you say, I cannot possibly be wrong." Faith is an act of pride.

Quote from: \"AllPurposeAtheist\"The moral high ground was dug up and made into a walmart apparently today.

Tornadoes caused: 2, maybe 3.

Jason78

Quote from: "victormarte"Can "something from nothing" prove God?

No.

What on earth made you think that it could?
Winner of WitchSabrinas Best Advice Award 2012


We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real
tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. -Plato

Mathias

No, it can't prove anything about god.
The hypothesis that came out of nothing was interpreted through scientific Methodology, with an accumulation of knowledge about various aspects of the universe and don't need no god. Assuming that this god was only responsible for creating the universe and not participate, it would be much more logical to replace god by chance, by all evidence to corroborate a godless universe. Not to mention the utter illogicality in some god  interfering in a world as random as it comes out of nothing.
"There is no logic in the existence of any god".
Myself.