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Can "something from nothing" prove God?

Started by victormarte, February 19, 2013, 05:19:49 PM

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victormarte

Had a little debate with my christian friend and we started talking about science's new findings. I mentioned that I watched lectures and read things about us finding a thing dubbed "we now know that something can come from nothing." He then said, couldn't that prove the existence of god? I know there isn't too much info on this topic, but is it a possibility?

Brian37

Quote from: "victormarte"Had a little debate with my christian friend and we started talking about science's new findings. I mentioned that I watched lectures and read things about us finding a thing dubbed "we now know that something can come from nothing." He then said, couldn't that prove the existence of god? I know there isn't too much info on this topic, but is it a possibility?

I don't know how long you have debated but this is really old hat.

Do you really think that "all this" was a result of a thinking cognition?

Year after year the seasons change but you dont worship a "season god". Do you need an ocean god to explain hurricanes? Do you need a tornado god to explain tornados?

The atoms of your poo are organized but I don't think you worship a shit god do you?
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers." Obama
Poetry By Brian37 Like my poetry on Facebook Under BrianJames Rational Poet and also at twitter under Brianrrs37

Hydra009

Quote from: "victormarte"Had a little debate with my christian friend and we started talking about science's new findings. I mentioned that I watched lectures and read things about us finding a thing dubbed "we now know that something can come from nothing." He then said, couldn't that prove the existence of god? I know there isn't too much info on this topic, but is it a possibility?
It's a possibility in the same sense that the lack of vampires around here demonstrates the existence of Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

P1:  Matter exists
P2:  ???
Conclusion:  God exists

What a non-seck!

Thumpalumpacus

Quote from: "victormarte"Had a little debate with my christian friend and we started talking about science's new findings. I mentioned that I watched lectures and read things about us finding a thing dubbed "we now know that something can come from nothing." He then said, couldn't that prove the existence of god? I know there isn't too much info on this topic, but is it a possibility?

Firstly, it seems entirely possible to me that the universe may well be a phase change.  In the same way that water changes to ice under certain conditions, it seems to me possible that the Universe might well be a massive phase change of energy into matter.

As far as whether that would prove any god's existence, well, no.  What would prove a god's existence would be evidence that could only be left by a god, and not natural processes.
<insert witty aphorism here>

WitchSabrina

Whu... I..... but ...the...... oh..........  um ..............




nope.......can't do it.
I am currently experiencing life at several WTFs per hour.

Alaric I

Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"
Quote from: "victormarte"Had a little debate with my christian friend and we started talking about science's new findings. I mentioned that I watched lectures and read things about us finding a thing dubbed "we now know that something can come from nothing." He then said, couldn't that prove the existence of god? I know there isn't too much info on this topic, but is it a possibility?

Firstly, it seems entirely possible to me that the universe may well be a phase change.  In the same way that water changes to ice under certain conditions, it seems to me possible that the Universe might well be a massive phase change of energy into matter.

As far as whether that would prove any god's existence, well, no.  What would prove a god's existence would be evidence that could only be left by a god, and not natural processes.


I was thinking almost the exact same thing.  Did the Universe really come from nothing?  No, there was energy.  If there truly was nothing, as in no energy, no matter, just epmtyness, then I would say yes.  But as we know we really didn't come from nothing, than no, it does not.

aitm

Frankly I always find this argument even better. For if nothing existed before god, then even knowledge could not exist and the suggestion that we go from nothing to absolute knowledge is a spectacularly ridiculous position. That a nano second ago nothing existed then all of a sudden all knowledge of physics that didn't exist because even the atom didn't existed somehow became available to something that a nano second ago had no way of even acquiring knowledge suddenly could acquire it and formulate it enough to create the atom. And then..and this is the fun part to me.....

realizes that darkness is bad...why?  Could it not adapt to darkness? So NOT omnipotent? So it suddenly understands and knows all about physics and creates atom and yada yada but somehow is able to also understand hunger? What? It doesn't need to eat does it? So NOT omnipotent. How can the whole of the idea of hunger pop into a head of something when hunger has no reason to exist as nothing has a need to eat? So this thing invents the concept of hunger that would be impossible to invent as there is nothing that requires sustenance that the idea of hunger would present an answer.  Understand the endless possibilities of the argument? How can you realize light when darkness is perfectly acceptable as it was the default and there would be no reason to suggest the need for light. What is with jealousy and hatred when nothing existed that suggested a need for any of it? I can see the concept of something coming from nothing, but to go from nothing, to something more than nothing, to understanding everything that can be from nothing that exists, is far more ridiculous than anything I can conceive.

The idea of a infinitely existing god , begs the question as above, not only that, but also begs, "the first thought problem".
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

the_antithesis


TheDevoutPasta

Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"
Quote from: "victormarte"Had a little debate with my christian friend and we started talking about science's new findings. I mentioned that I watched lectures and read things about us finding a thing dubbed "we now know that something can come from nothing." He then said, couldn't that prove the existence of god? I know there isn't too much info on this topic, but is it a possibility?

Firstly, it seems entirely possible to me that the universe may well be a phase change.  In the same way that water changes to ice under certain conditions, it seems to me possible that the Universe might well be a massive phase change of energy into matter.

As far as whether that would prove any god's existence, well, no.  What would prove a god's existence would be evidence that could only be left by a god, and not natural processes.

I've been interested in reading up on that for a while now, do you know what the name of this theory (if it's a theory) is called? any good articles i can read up on?
"The criticism of the atrocities inherent to religion is an undeniable prerequisite of societal progress."

Fidel_Castronaut

lol, marquee. HTML ROOLZ!

Bibliofagus

Quote from: "victormarte"Had a little debate with my christian friend and we started talking about science's new findings. I mentioned that I watched lectures and read things about us finding a thing dubbed "we now know that something can come from nothing." He then said, couldn't that prove the existence of god? I know there isn't too much info on this topic, but is it a possibility?

It wouldn't be nothing if there was a god.
Quote from: \"the_antithesis\"Faith says, "I believe this and I don\'t care what you say, I cannot possibly be wrong." Faith is an act of pride.

Quote from: \"AllPurposeAtheist\"The moral high ground was dug up and made into a walmart apparently today.

Tornadoes caused: 2, maybe 3.

Hydra009

Quote from: "Bibliofagus"It wouldn't be nothing if there was a god.
Yeah!  The existence of God would disprove the notion that the existence of the universe somehow proves the existence of God since either God always existed (in which case true nothingness is impossible) or God somehow came into being (in which case getting something from nothingness is possible).  Either way, it's a dead argument.

dawiw

I think this is one of the hottest topics in the Atheist Experience Show

[youtube:1apc9ihh]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6838c6hJ28[/youtube:1apc9ihh]

You cannot demonstrate nothing we don't have a nothing.

Dude x+ y = God
I remain unconvinced by any claims anyone has ever made about the existence or the power of a divine force operating in the universe."
-Neil deGrasse Tyson.

Brian37

Quote from: "WitchSabrina"Whu... I..... but ...the...... oh..........  um ..............




nope.......can't do it.

Eastwood, is that you talking to empty chairs again?
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers." Obama
Poetry By Brian37 Like my poetry on Facebook Under BrianJames Rational Poet and also at twitter under Brianrrs37

WitchSabrina

Quote from: "Brian37"
Quote from: "WitchSabrina"Whu... I..... but ...the...... oh..........  um ..............




nope.......can't do it.

Eastwood, is that you talking to empty chairs again?

Ouch - comparing me to Eastwood.  Oh the pain. The agony.
ROFL
I am currently experiencing life at several WTFs per hour.