Election Thread 2024

[Unbeliever]

Well, they let Biden on stage after being diagnosed with a cold, so his voice and manner were affected. Thus he was certainly not at his best, and we'll all pay the price. I still doubt that Drumpf will win the election, but I'm not as confident as I was before this fiasco. CNN did a lousy job of moderating the debate by letting the convicted felon get away with every one of his lies and exaggerations.

[Blackleaf]

Unfortunately, facts don't win debates. Charisma does. A confident liar is more convincing than a someone calmly telling the truth. It especially doesn't help when you're stammering or struggling to find words. Biden's job was to inspire confidence in himself, and he absolutely fumbled. I don't think he swayed any undecided voters, and Democrats who usually win the popular vote, but lose the votes that matter, aren't going to be excited to vote for Biden.

Biden may have had a cold, but we conveniently didn't hear about that until after the debate. If the cold was really affecting him so badly, he should have rescheduled. The best thing Biden can do now, in my opinion, is to bow out and let another Democrat take the reigns.

[Hydra009]

https://apnews.com/article/supreme-court-chevron-regulations-environment-5173bc83d3961a7aaabe415ceaf8d665

One giant step closer to gutting regulation on behalf of big business.

[Unbeliever]

I guess there's no such thing anymore as "settled law."

[Luther Martini]

The best thing Biden can do now, in my opinion, is to bow out and let another Democrat take the reigns.

I agree.  As much as I like Joe, and think that he has done a decent job as President, I think he's probably toast.

One positive thing about last night's debate is that being a little more than a month and a half until the convention, it happened early enough for the party to recover (at least in theory).  The DNC leadership is probably talking behind the scenes to some potential candidates who might be a viable alternative. If any of them agree to step into a brokered convention, perhaps the leadership can then convince Biden to withdraw.

We really need someone who can energize people to get out and vote ... someone who can give people a reason, other than fear of what will happen under Trump, to get out and vote ... someone who has a vision of hope and unity.  I think that Biden, although often lacking in energy and charisma, has always had that vision, but he is having trouble, especially now, in articulating his ideas in a manner as to inspire action.

  It was hope and unity that Obama instilled in the voters; it was hope and unity that Bill Clinton instilled in the voters.  They were able to appeal to the best instincts in people, thereby unifying them toward a common cause.  

But who could that person of hope be now?  Is there a Democrat who could step in at this point and win?

[Hydra009]

I agree.  As much as I like Joe, and think that he has done a decent job as President, I think he's probably toast.

I don't think he's toast or that he could realistically be replaced as candidate after the primaries are over and with election day less than 6 months away.

FFS, his rival just got hit with 34 felony convictions and we're talking like Biden's the one in trouble.  He's not.  Could you imagine their roles reversed?  And Democrats being confident about felon-candidate's chances?  The guy would be sunk six ways from Sunday with even one of those convictions.

Yeah, Biden didn't do great in that debate, which might hurt him with all 17 Americans who haven't already made up their minds.  For everyone else, nothing has changed.  Trump and his dictator-for-a-day* fantasies haven't changed.  His base hasn't changed all that much, though I do note that some of them have died or peeled away since 2016 and no significant number of new ones have replaced them.  Biden's base hasn't changed - they're unhappy, but that unhappiness doesn't translate to Dictator Trump, at least I would hope not.  That said, I do worry about Democratic engagement and enthusiasm.  This is an election where people might stay home.  And if they do, there will be no need to vote in the next election or the one after that.

[Blackleaf]

This is an election where people might stay home.  And if they do, there will be no need to vote in the next election or the one after that.

This is exactly the doomsday scenario I am worried about. People voted for Biden the first time because they really, really wanted Trump out. They might not be as motivated to keep him out. Even if most of America would prefer Biden over Trump, that means nothing if they don't actually get out and vote for him. I think even most Democratic voters see Biden as a lesser evil, rather than an ideal leader. We need someone who can inspire confidence.

As for Trump's felony charges, he's not in prison now, is he? I don't know what the Hell is going on with that, but maybe if he actually goes to prison, that'll take some of the wind out of his sails. But let's be real. Republicans would still vote for him anyway.

Why did Biden even agree to this debate? It would have been smarter for him not to legitimize Trump's campaign with a debate.

[ferdmonger]

Biden can surround himself with competent people.  Trump surrounds himself with corrupt 'yes men' who seem to be in the habit of being convicted of felonies.

[Hydra009]

[Dark Lightning]

The belief that Biden isn't the correct choice after that debate is a farce. The choice boils down to a lunatic who has promised to tear down the US government and make himself ruler while punishing anyone who opposes him, or a man who MAY need to be replaced by someone who also believes in the Constitution.

[ferdmonger]

Beautiful.  September is another debate.  Let's seen how that goes. 

[Dark Lightning]

I don't even need to see that debate. The choice is clear. Lunacy and vengeful anarchy, or old and replaceable by another Democratic leader.

[SGOS]

From what I'm reading, Biden isn't quitting, and replacing him even if he does quit faces so many issues making it seem impossible to put someone else on the ballot. But if Biden somehow wins, I can't see him lasting 4 more years as anything other than a cardboard cutout, unless he dies in office, which is a bet I'd take, and the Democratic Power base runs the country behind the scenes.

I get the "anything but Trump" vote at this point, but what I'm thinking right now is that Biden should know that he is no longer capable of doing the job. Does he know something that the rest of us don't, or is this just an issue of ego?

I'm also hearing a lot of talk about his wife Jill's influence in the matter. This sounds like he's not capable of making his own decisions. Where are we now? He's got something like 17 strikes, and no one is sending him back to the dugout.

Five months to the election, and Democrats are debating the issue, rather than doing something to fix the issue. How much longer do we have to settle the matter before it's too late? I suppose we could still debate whether it's already too late, and that of course won't fix anything either.

What a fucking mess.

[Cassia]

It's not like Biden has done nothing so far. In fact, I think the economy has been running hotter than expected or even wanted and thus inflation has been hard to beat. Obviously, a recession would kill inflation, but at what cost?

-Biden signed a $1 trillion infrastructure bill into law in November 2021 to repair the nation's roads, bridges and railways, bring high-speed internet to rural communities and more.

-Biden signed into law the largest gun-safety bill to pass Congress in nearly 30 years. While historically significant, the bill was rather limited compared to what gun control advocates would have wanted.

-The CHIPS and Science Act of 2022 passed in August, which allocated roughly $53 billion in federal funding to manufacture semiconductor chips in the U.S. instead of relying on China to produce them.

-Build Back Better Act
The bill tackles inflation by reducing the federal deficit, promote production of certain goods and limit the cost of some prescription drugs.
$369 billion for a climate initiative to reduce greenhouse emissions and promote lean energy technologies. $300 billion in new revenue through a corporate tax increase.
$80 billion for the Internal Revenue Service to hire new agents, modernize its technology, audit the wealthy and more. A $2,000 annual cap for out-of-pocket prescription drug costs for those insured by Medicare.

-Support for Ukraine. Not as easy to get as you would think.

Do most people even know what goes on in the government? Nah, they just focus on a guy's speech impediment. A criminal can't even join the army. Yet here we are about to make a criminal the commander in chief. We are done. Stupidity beyond belief.

 

[SGOS]

It's not like Biden has done nothing so far.

This has been part of the debate, and it's the logical part. But is it strategic?