Started by jorgammon, July 21, 2023, 11:12:57 AM
Quote from: the_antithesis on July 25, 2023, 11:33:23 AMIf a woman drowns her child in a bathtub, who should go to prison? The water or the bathtub?
QuoteAnd yet the enlightenment itself was spurred on by shedding the religiosity of the Dark Ages.
Quoterampant scientific progress has brought us to the edge of complete extinction
Quote from: Shiranu on July 25, 2023, 03:07:51 PMAnti-theism to the Enlightened philosopher and scientist alike would likely be nearly as reprehensible as the monarchical abuses of power and religious fanaticism they themselves witnessed first hand - both as theists themselves and as humanists.
Quote from: Hydra009 on July 25, 2023, 09:40:10 PMI feel like there are some other very important factors also at play which were left out.It's not scientific progress ---> extinctionIt's more like scientific progress ---> rampant over-exploitation ---> ecological degradation and/or war ---> corruption/stalled reforms ---> ??? (possible extinction)
Quotehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baron_d%27HolbachOff the top of my head.
QuoteThe deistic Voltaire, denying authorship of the work, made known his aversion to d'Holbach's philosophy, writing that "[the work] is entirely opposed to my principles. This book leads to an atheistic philosophy that I detest."
QuoteTo argue that somehow religion contributed to science and to other obviously secular and humanist endeavors, when the church and compliant governments ruled with the iron fist is a meaningless conclusion to me.
Quote from: Shiranu on July 26, 2023, 02:22:13 AMThat over-exploitation would not be possible without unchecked scientific progress; the fruits of that progress inherently crave *more* by their very natures. Their entire design principle dictates it.
QuoteEven "clean" energy requires a dirtier means of generation
QuoteThis is a view I would wager money on that Voltaire's fellow deists such as Franklin & Paine might share; or Christians like Rousseau or Newton. Perhaps I shouldn't speak for them, but I just truly do not see a group who were largely composed of theists being particularly favorable to an anti-theist ideology.
Quote from: Shiranu on July 26, 2023, 03:37:01 PMTo be frank, the fact that this is even an argument shows that the humanism of the Enlightenment died ages ago; the "Post-Modern" movement of science is a spit in the face to everything the majority of the enlightened thinkers advocated - ideology over reality, and if reality conflicts with ideology then we just erase reality and make a new one.
QuoteThe Enlightenment was a necessary stepping-stone to get away from the religious mind poisoning.
Quote" "The Bible is one of the greatest blessings bestowed by God on the children of men. It has God for its Author, salvation for its end, and truth without any mixture for its matter. It is all pure, all sincere; nothing too much; nothing wanting!" "
Quote The moral man who seeks a support point in virtue must admit the existence of a Being as fair as He is supreme. So God is necessary to the world in every way, and we can say together with the author of the Epistle to the scribbler of a vulgar book on the Three Impostors, "If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent Him".
QuoteI perceive God everywhere in His works. I sense Him in me; I see Him all around me. When my reason is afloat, my faith cannot long remain in suspense, and I believe in God as firmly as in any other truth whatever.
Quote "Pure religious faith alone can found a universal church; for only [such] rational faith can be believed in and shared by everyone ... Yet, by reason of a peculiar weakness of human nature, pure faith can never be relied on as much as it deserves, that is, a church cannot be established on it alone."
Quote "We may admire the wisdom and goodness of God even in the weakness and folly of man."
Quote [size=-1]Whether men will or not, they must be subject always to the Divine Power. By denying the existence or providence of God, men may shake off their ease, but not their yoke.[/size]
QuoteFaith is a gift of God, which man can neither give nor take away by promise of rewards or menace of torture.
Quote He who thinks half-heartedly will not believe in God; but he who really thinks has to believe in God.