Sins of Child Sexual Abuse and the Gays

[Blackleaf]

For sure, we have always fought against powers and principalities. People are capable, and intended for, great things through love. It's the disconnection between that need instilled within us, and the realities and fears of the world that leads to much of our suffering.

Phrases like "powers and principalities" make my eyes glaze over. I hate Church jargon. Nine out of ten times, it's meaningless fluff.

Christianity was for the people. It heralded a paradigm shift, revolution, anti-racism, anti-establishment. That's a real problem for people in power who seek injustice, repression, violence.

Uhh... What? As soon as Christianity became mainstream, it was used as a tool to oppress others. Before Rome became Christian, people were free to practice whatever religion they wanted. Suddenly, Christianity becomes the state religion, and everyone is forced to participate. The religion was spread through violence. The Bible was used in support of the slave industry. And anti-establishment? Hell no. The Bible is very pro-authority. According to it, all world leaders are appointed by God himself, so if you rebel against them, you rebel against God. If you speak out against your king, prophet, etc, you will be put to death. The closest a Christian can come to sparking a revolution is becoming a martyr. Passivity and obedience until death.

But Jesus' call to follow him and preach the Good News to all the land was not easy to quelch. So, rulers did what they could to use the Bible to prop themselves up. It's a regular part of the human tapestry, leaders who abuse their positions at the detriment of, well, everyone. It's dangerous to place your hatred and biases as stemming from God, as if you can whitewash shit and call it a miracle. Of course the Bible is not immune; it's particularly useful to leaders because of the nature of spiritual beliefs to permeate everything we do.

If only the Bible was more clear about its meanings, so people couldn't cherry pick from it to support any position.

The various books of the Gospels were taken from accounts handed down, several times over. The apostles also had very different vantage points at this crowded public execution. But his last words were recorded in two places (maybe more?)....

"My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" has always been peculiarly comforting to me. Here's Jesus, literally the full and complete embodiment of the Light, and he's praying a prayer of complaint!

Many in the crowd were Jewish, or versed in Judaism, and they would have recognized Jesus' words as the same as David's in Psalm 22, "My God, my God why have you forsaken me?"

It's comforting to me because... Jesus was without sin, blameless, and yet he cried out in complaint, in supplication, just the same.

And, that was the last that Jesus spoke before dying. God did grant Jesus peace, and proved that death had no sting, when Jesus rose 3 days later.

I like the showings of Jesus' humanity. I like the permission to be broken, that it doesn't mean we're separated or wrong.

These are Jesus' last words in Mark and Matthew, but Luke's Super Jesus chose these final words, "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit!" The way I see it, the former two wanted Jesus to be seen in a sympathetic light, whereas Luke just wanted to make Jesus seem like a badass, taking his crucifixion like a champ. I don't believe the author of Mark intended Jesus to be seen as the "Son of God," but as a wise teacher, while Luke definitely wanted to portray Jesus as a god. As a result, he removed any signs of weaknesses, added more miracles, and just changed Jesus' personality to make him seem more in control.

Also, why did you post the same reply three hours apart? Were you trying to edit your post?

[aitm]

Pish posh. They only did to Oliver what social norms demanded they do. Beat him for asking for more of some disgusting food.

Finally admitting that the babble is no more relevant than Oliver Twist. How perfect.

[Dreamer]

The bible and believers.

People always have the choice to follow God or not.

[Dreamer]

Finally admitting that the babble is no more relevant than Oliver Twist. How perfect.

Too predictable, how droll.

[Dreamer]

Phrases like "powers and principalities" make my eyes glaze over. I hate Church jargon. Nine out of ten times, it's meaningless fluff.

Uhh... What? As soon as Christianity became mainstream, it was used as a tool to oppress others. Before Rome became Christian, people were free to practice whatever religion they wanted. Suddenly, Christianity becomes the state religion, and everyone is forced to participate. The religion was spread through violence. The Bible was used in support of the slave industry. And anti-establishment? Hell no. The Bible is very pro-authority. According to it, all world leaders are appointed by God himself, so if you rebel against them, you rebel against God. If you speak out against your king, prophet, etc, you will be put to death. The closest a Christian can come to sparking a revolution is becoming a martyr. Passivity and obedience until death.

If only the Bible was more clear about its meanings, so people couldn't cherry pick from it to support any position.

These are Jesus' last words in Mark and Matthew, but Luke's Super Jesus chose these final words, "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit!" The way I see it, the former two wanted Jesus to be seen in a sympathetic light, whereas Luke just wanted to make Jesus seem like a badass, taking his crucifixion like a champ. I don't believe the author of Mark intended Jesus to be seen as the "Son of God," but as a wise teacher, while Luke definitely wanted to portray Jesus as a god. As a result, he removed any signs of weaknesses, added more miracles, and just changed Jesus' personality to make him seem more in control.

Also, why did you post the same reply three hours apart? Were you trying to edit your post?

I had way too many tabs open and lost track. Not sure what happened exactly :)

Certainly the Gospels support different facets. But the entire story is one of the underdog, the downtrodden, the needy.

It's been abused and used to prop up various governments.

When I say we fight against powers and principalities, it's because what we face is so much more than just people and things. It's the ideas, the beliefs about power and who has control. It's why things didn't become peaceful with the death of Saddam Hussein. Our task is not to destroy a person; it's to remove the desire for destruction, the false beliefs that allow us to hurt each other.

[Mike Cl]

People always have the choice to follow God or not.

How so very profound!!  And people always have the choice to follow Bugs Bunny or Paul Bunyan or The Martian or any other fictional character or not.  I realized that at a fairly young age and so started looking around for someone or something to believe in.  And that lead to what reasons should I believe in any god or person as a spiritual leader--or leader of any sort.  And I then realized that maybe 'beliefs' are not good enough to pin your thoughts and decision on.  Just maybe one needs to find ways of thinking about things using proof or facts about to help form a decision.  So I began exploring my world and universe using facts.  One does not have to have any reasons whatsoever to hold a belief.  But one needs to have solid, provable reasons to think something is real or not when assessing any issue. 

So, with all of your blathering, you have given not a single reason to think your are relaying facts or actual proofs of what you say.  You are all belief and nothing more.  That demonstrates to me that that is all you have--you pick stuff out of thin air and present it as facts.  You simply reinforce my understanding that there is no god or any kind of deity.     

[Unbeliever]

Wishful thinking is very popular. 👹👽☠️💀🪬🛐👁🗨👻

[aitm]

Too predictable, how droll.

Hey, you made the comparison. Next time but yer noggin in gear first.

[Dreamer]

Yet none have refuted my original position.

In fact, only one even attempted to, with a stab at forcing Christians to submit to Messianic Judaism and be beholden to all of the old laws. (Which I'm unconcerned because we're not, and 'all things are lawful to me.')

Again, not interested in convincing anyone of the realities of God and Jesus. There's literally thousands of books, movies, articles, and it is generally historically accepted that Jesus lived. But, that is another matter, that I don't have the desire to explore now.

The Bible is, in fact, a real book with words that support my position. I was looking for weaknesses or flaws, but have yet to uncover any.

[Dreamer]

Hey, you made the comparison. Next time but yer noggin in gear first.

I really did hope that you wouldn't be so predictable. 🤷

ETA: Sorry, been ill and not in my usual spirits. What I mean is, I get something out of what you say when you don't reach for predictable or low-hanging fruit.

[aitm]

I was looking for weaknesses or flaws, but have yet to uncover any.

Of course you can't, they're called blinders. You can find them on horses and Christian's. Look everywhere but at the actual book. Still can't tell me why your omnipotent god is so befuddled by a woman's menstrual cycle. Tell us....do you warn others of your  "time" so they don't touch you or sit where you sat or touch what you have touched? No? How odd of you. Do you go off and set yourself apart from your fellows for the time demanded by god so they do not become unclean? No? LOL. Pick your cherries, pick away. lOL.

[Dreamer]

Of course you can't, they're called blinders. You can find them on horses and Christian's. Look everywhere but at the actual book. Still can't tell me why your omnipotent god is so befuddled by a woman's menstrual cycle. Tell us....do you warn others of your  "time" so they don't touch you or sit where you sat or touch what you have touched? No? How odd of you. Do you go off and set yourself apart from your fellows for the time demanded by god so they do not become unclean? No? LOL. Pick your cherries, pick away. lOL.

Why do you think that Christianity is predicated upon knowing and adhering to ancient law?

I know why I was a Messianic Jew for several years when I was young, but I was a devout seeker.

Why do *you* interpret Christianity this way?

[aitm]

Why do *you* interpret Christianity this way?

I don't interpret it. It book has instructions, if you choose to ignore them because they are inconvenient to you, that's your decision. But you'll get no get out of jail card from us simply because of "your" interpretation. The book says what it says, not hard to follow the rules at all.

[Dreamer]

I don't interpret it. It book has instructions, if you choose to ignore them because they are inconvenient to you, that's your decision. But you'll get no get out of jail card from us simply because of "your" interpretation. The book says what it says, not hard to follow the rules at all.

And that is why I dismiss your misunderstanding.

It is so absurd to make me laugh, without mirth, but with genuine joy and a touch of sadness.

Thanks to God that the Bible does indeed tell me that I am a new creature. That all things are lawful to me (though not all profitable). That to follow Jesus is as simple as this: Loving God and loving others as myself.

You can continue to try to force whatever thoughts your wish, but you're demonstrably wrong and further lack any convictions on this matter.

Perhaps it would be better for you to simply consider me a new creature of love. Because that is all Jesus has done for me, and all that I follow.

[aitm]

And that is why I dismiss your misunderstanding.

It is so absurd to make me laugh, without mirth, but with genuine joy and a touch of sadness.

Thanks to God that the Bible does indeed tell me that I am a new creature. That all things are lawful to me (though not all profitable). That to follow Jesus is as simple as this: Loving God and loving others as myself.

You can continue to try to force whatever thoughts your wish, but you're demonstrably wrong and further lack any convictions on this matter.

Perhaps it would be better for you to simply consider me a new creature of love. Because that is all Jesus has done for me, and all that I follow.

And your position, like millions of others, is simply excusing your actions, that god himself has declared unlawful, under the guise that every action is forgivable according to you. That in " heaven" a person who lived life in pure and absolute dedication to every word and law, who in gods eyes has been a perfect follower, gets the same reward as a rapist or murderer who lived life with all the vileness that a human could possess can at the last minute be fully forgiven and stand next to the perfect one with the same blessings and love from god.
This is why your position is not just laughable, but as vile as the thought above. And this is why so many turn from your religion of "convenience". You are simply skipping about, throwing empty platitudes into the air, sprinkling pixie dust on your head, and telling people to "look at me, I know the truth", when in fact you know nothing other than this grand illusion you have convinced yourself of. You may do what you wish with your pandering self. But you can stop with the bullshit in our house.