Started by Dreamer, February 27, 2023, 11:33:06 AM
Quote from: Mike Cl on March 02, 2023, 04:08:43 PMI agree with much of what you say about morals/ethics and the best way to treat our neighbors. But when it comes to the bible and Jesus you lose me. why? Because both of those are totally human constructs. There is no proof that any god exists and Jesus is simply a fiction. So, you can make both of those say what you want them to say--facts not needed. That would be like me building a defense of how I live based upon the sayings of Bugs Bunny--I can make him say whatever I need him to say.
Quote from: Dreamer on March 03, 2023, 10:58:01 AMYes, a great many do that. But that's the sinful path lined with misdeeds against our fellow humans. That is, the action is not Christian.
Quote from: Dreamer on March 03, 2023, 11:02:36 AMThat is the great freedom and great frustration of following God. If we're not vigilant and careful, we'll only be following ourselves behind the red curtain.There are ways to interpret the Bible, referenced multiple times throughout. It's a two prism test, loving God and loving your neighbors. Anything that is not in line with that, cannot be a Christian action. Yet, we do all sin and fail in this. But we can grow, accept responsible, root out our weaknesses and wrong thinking--and Jesus also shared that there is more rejoicing over a sinner who changes than for the man who always makes right choices.
Quote from: Dreamer on March 03, 2023, 10:52:22 AMThe Bible is contextual; I don't know why you didn't read the nearby verses, but here you go..."Have you allowed all the women to live?" he asked them. "They were the ones who followed Balaam's advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful to the Lord in the Peor incident, so that a plague struck the Lord's people."
Quote from: Hydra009 on March 03, 2023, 11:24:00 AMThis No True Scotsman stuff is wearing thin and is an indication that one values some sort of identity so much that one literally do no wrong within it. It's an obvious defense mechanism, and walking around the world with blinders on is no way to go through life.The simple fact is that Christians do bad things, Muslims do bad things, atheists do bad things, etc. In any large group, there are bound to be sorts of problems. And not just that, but in large communities and especially in small, insular communities, this stuff often gets swept under the rug or disturbingly, guilt is transferred from the perpetrator to the victim for "doing harm to the organization".The obvious solution is to call out such behavior and see to it that perpetrators are caught and punished. Crimes are deterred not by severity of punishment, but by the certainty of being caught, and perpetrators are more likely to be caught if people do not turn a blind eye to such behavior and report the crime asap rather than sitting on it or dismissing the accusation out of hand. This No True Scotsman stuff plays into the perpetrator's hands - the assumption that the group is too pious and pure for any of its members to engage in that sort of criminal behavior is a cloak that criminals use to cast off initial suspicion.
Quote from: Blackleaf on February 27, 2023, 01:09:31 PMThey'd have to actually read the Bible to use that justification.
Quote from: M on March 03, 2023, 06:12:58 PMThere's a special pass for religious organisations all the time everywhere.(...)Why can't we without fear call out bullshit?Why is there always someone in the background threatening us? Religion in a nutshell. Threatening fearful people into submission since the day dot and happy to do so.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on February 27, 2023, 01:37:51 PMLook, dreamer, i imagine you are a good guy, all in all. (Relatively speaking, I don't think i am a good person, for starters. But that is a whole different conversation, and not a particularly interesting one at that.) And i can appreciate you preaching for love and understanding and opposing systemic child rape in religious orders. I can.But i can't help but think that without validation of the concept of 'sin', and without the institution of religion, less of these transgressions in the whole would occur. Especially the gaybashing.See, i don't think you are appaled of gaybashing and child rape because you are a christian. No more than i think another christian hates gays or thinks it is excusable to protect the church by hiding proof of child rape, because They are christian.I believe christianity is such a broad umbrella-term that you can pick and choose to fit it to your needs. And honestly, if the bible or that umbrella term is your 'reason' to judge things as sins or as wrong, i don't see the average member of the westboro baptist church being less or more validated in their reasoning for their message of hate than you in your message of love.Sorry.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on February 27, 2023, 01:37:51 PMI agree with stephen fry that we should call it child rape. Sexual abuse somehow seems like downplaying the horrid crime that it is.
Quote from: aitm on March 04, 2023, 02:42:08 PMThe key phrase here Dreamer, is "they chose to interpret", just like you are doing. You suggest there are passages in the babble that mean exactly that...but then they are those which you think need your interpretation to make them more palatable for you. Therein lies the big hookery. You are already a heretic for trying to "disclaim" what the babble actually says in favor of something less offensive. You live in your own made up world...but you go girl.....dream on.
QuoteYou are already a heretic for trying to "disclaim" what the babble actually says in favor of something less offensive.
Quote from: Dreamer on March 04, 2023, 02:48:53 PMI think it's all not literal. I'm just leaving the space for the possibility that something could be; I just really doubt it based on the rest of the Bible. Besides, if it were all literal, it would apply to the dead, not me...I am a heretic. Just like Jesus.