Dogma (Not the movie)

[Dreamer]

Curious what issues you have with Christians/Christianity.

Some Christian dogma I marinated in during my childhood (Note: I object to all of these as false and dangerous):

The man as head of household should be served as king, honored and obeyed without question. To do otherwise is a sin.

Women are lesser and have no position teaching or having any authority over anyone but children.

When bad things happen to Christians, it's because Satan is attacking them.

When bad things happen to non-Christians, it's because God is punishing them for sin.

* Being gay is one of, if not the, worst sin because it's continual, blasphemous abomination. *

* The punishment for the first murderer was that he was black, and this is where black people come from-they're cursed. *

* Virginity is of supreme importance, and a woman is devalued and unwanted unless she maintains her purity. *

* These * dogmas were particularly damaging and still fill me with anger. I feel a sense of responsibility to confront these harmful (and false) ideas wherever they crop up. *



My objections are numerous, but I can apply these against all the dogmas that I've mentioned:

It's not okay to justify mistreating others because you think God disapproves of what they're doing.

I'm not okay with God being co-opted to support someone's prejudices and fears/hatred.




There's lots more; I didn't even comment on beliefs about hell, dinosaurs, history, evolution...


So, what's your objections?

[Mike Cl]

I agree with all of your objections.  And hundreds more, just too many to list.  Almost every church I know about uses fear as it's 'club' to keep one in line with whatever that particular minister/priest thinks is appropriate.
Patriarchy is one of the most damaging dogmas preached and insisted upon.  Christians believe it is their right to push their message down the throats of society--they regard it as their god-given freedom and duty.  Hypocrisy and organized religions are woven together and displayed daily.  I would say all organized religions are dangerous, especially white christian nationalist movements.  And the fact that religion kills the thinking part of our brain--willful ignorance is demanded (faith) and exalted. And I could go on and on......................

 

[aitm]

You make your own case against religion, but refuse to listen to yourself. It should be noted that "god" uses the same word..."abomination" for homo's and those who get tattoos.....think about that eh.

[Hydra009]

There's a lot to dispute, and I especially dislike the hatred towards women and minorities and nonbelievers, but my main dispute is with dogma itself.

Who decides what the dogma is?  And how do they decide it?  And my biggest gripe - how do they know any of it is correct?

The fundamental problem I have with Christianity or any other religion is that this stuff has all the appearances of mere opinion elevated to some godly level.  Unquestionable.  Unchangeable.  Impossible to verify.

Like imagine if I took some mass shooter's manifesto and erased his name and put God there instead and that's what we all structured our society around for centuries.  If that seems like an odd analogy, remember that Muhammad was a warlord.  Several prophets were, iirc.

[Dreamer]

You make your own case against religion, but refuse to listen to yourself. It should be noted that "god" uses the same word..."abomination" for homo's and those who get tattoos.....think about that eh.

Tl;Dr: I didn't know/remember that it was the same word, though I did attend a Judeo-Christian church that endeavored to follow all those rules. We gave up pork and shrimp, but I don't think we ever checked our clothing tags, so I guess that was all for naught...




 
The issue that bothers me the most, stirs me to speak on it...

The Bible refers to a particular type of sexual relationship as an abomination, that's true. But to strip it to 'gay' is such a gross oversimplification that completely erases the true abomination. This is still a problem of particular note in the Catholic Church...

There was a big problem with male leaders sexually violating young boys in the church. This is the abomination.

This is a big deal to me, not only for the pain that the perversion of these verses has caused gay people, but also for the pain that has been caused to countless victims of child sex abuse. There are other verses which are used to condemn gay people, that describe rape as the sin.

That verse is a HEALING verse. It is a balm, a relief--yet it's used as a weapon to support mistreating people in the LGBTQ+ spectrum.

When the reality is, it's absolutely disgusting and revolting to God when an adult sexually abuses a child, particularly when that adult is in a position of power, a spiritual leader in the church..


I'm against dogmas. People do stupid things when they value ideas and ideals over life.

That humans can be judgmental, cruel, and use God to justify their own wrongs, tells me about their character but does not make me flee from God.


As far as the tattoo, it's a good thing that all things are permitted to me...

[M]

Which denomination of Christianity are we talking about? After all, they're all at loggerheads.

My problem is with religion in general, but if we're talking Christianity the main one for me is the fact that children are brainwashed into thanking a middle Eastern hippy for their packed lunches. He has absolutely nothing to do with the food shopping or the preparation.

We're all well aware of the problems that dogma throws up, so I'm not even going there.

[aitm]

As far as the tattoo, it's a good thing that all things are permitted to me...

Not according to the babble but go ahead, be like all Christian's cherry pick what YOU think god consider an abomination. I judge the worth of a religion by the behavior of its followers..that's why I reject them all.

[Dreamer]

Not according to the babble but go ahead, be like all Christian's cherry pick what YOU think god consider an abomination. I judge the worth of a religion by the behavior of its followers..that's why I reject them all.

Actually, I was quoting the Bible.

Everything is permissible," but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible," but not everything is edifying.

1 Corinthians 10:23

[Dreamer]

Jesus fulfilled those laws, and I am not beholden to them. That is what following Christ is.

Rather, I have been called to love God and love others as myself; everything within that context, is not a sin. I focus on the new commandment Jesus gave, and it is difficult enough. Can't imagine being held to all these rules, many of which serve to give context to the stories/parables.

[aitm]

Jesus fulfilled those laws, and I am not beholden to them. That is what following Christ is.

Rather, I have been called to love God and love others as myself; everything within that context, is not a sin. I focus on the new commandment Jesus gave, and it is difficult enough. Can't imagine being held to all these rules, many of which serve to give context to the stories/parables.

In short....I am allowed to ignore the parts of the babble that are inconvenient to me because the babble says so....

I wonder...what does god and Jesus REALLY want? Do they prefer someone who follows the rules..or those who follow some of the rules? Does one who lives by the rules, which by the way, is not that hard..or those who only follow some and beg for forgiveness get the same treatment? Seem like bullshit to me. Think about it., I followed the letter of the law and those who don't get the same rosy garden and Golden Arches? Why bother with even writing rules? What a crock of self righteous bullshit.

[M]

Jesus made a whip.

Nice work Jesus.

Jesus spat his dummy out in a place of worship.

Nice work Jesus.

If Jesus was alive today, he'd be on some sort of register.

[M]

Let's be honest. If you had a date with Jesus you'd be mad if you came back for more.

[Mike Cl]

Jesus fulfilled those laws, and I am not beholden to them. That is what following Christ is.

Rather, I have been called to love God and love others as myself; everything within that context, is not a sin. I focus on the new commandment Jesus gave, and it is difficult enough. Can't imagine being held to all these rules, many of which serve to give context to the stories/parables.

My studies over about a 20 yr. span let me to understand that jesus, like Bugs Bunny, is fiction.  Following any of 'his' laws is like using Bugs as a social model.  Neither is real.  I don't need to be 'called' to follow personal rules of conduct.  I have learned it over time by trial and error and critical thinking.  I find myself being more loving and kind than the average religious person. (Not to toot my own horn, but just an honest reflection of my own actions) 

[Dreamer]

And the fact that religion kills the thinking part of our brain

 

Wut? 🤔

[Dreamer]

Which denomination of Christianity are we talking about? After all, they're all at loggerheads.

My problem is with religion in general, but if we're talking Christianity the main one for me is the fact that children are brainwashed into thanking a middle Eastern hippy for their packed lunches. He has absolutely nothing to do with the food shopping or the preparation.

We're all well aware of the problems that dogma throws up, so I'm not even going there.

Whichever flavor is bugging you atm or stands out, whatever. There is a wide breadth..

What bothers you about prayers of thanksgiving to God? Is it that the people and creatures should be thanked? What if they are thanked in addition to God, is that a lesser objection or just a lateral move?