Christian experiencer testimony

[the_antithesis]

It is difficult to get empirical evidence on things involving the consciousness like near death experiences, shared death experiences, astral projection, dreams, etc

Convenient.

You can make up anything you want, then.

[Cassia]

Just another "magical thinker".  They love to claim they were "former atheists" as if that matters to anyone. So the best evidence for god is a mal functioning brain due to a NDE. That checks out.

[NagaMorningstar]

Just another "magical thinker".  They love to claim they were "former atheists" as if that matters to anyone. So the best evidence for god is a mal functioning brain due to a NDE. That checks out.

You ignored shared death experiences which involve the healthy people around the dying person.

[Cassia]

You ignored shared death experiences which involve the healthy people around the dying person.

I think I have heard enough "testimony" in my life, thank you. You are just learning about flawed monkey brains. Let's face it, starting a religion takes almost no effort beyond a seed of nonsense...since our psychology is the perfect soil. Congratulations on being so typical.

[aitm]

2000 years and still not one mountain moved....ho hum..maybe ole god really did make a rock so big he couldn't move it....lol

[Shiranu]

Word of advice - you are speaking an entirely different language than they do as well as atheists having a massive load of (rightful) suspicion after years and years of people claiming to have discovered "the truth" just to have been full of it and not able to put up even the most basic of argument in favor of their position.

Case in point of the language difference...

Convenient.

You can make up anything you want, then.

That's clearly not what you said nor the point, and yet this is how they will interpret it - and this interpretation is based off of experience, so it's also perfectly valid.

"Experienced" events only makes a good language when both parties have experienced the same event.

[NagaMorningstar]

That verse is wordplay on Sanskrit word "naga" (my username) for "unmoving" and "mountain" which also means "serpent". Root of the Hebrew word for serpent is similar and might be even more connected in Aramaic, not sure.

I saw reptilian during my overcoming experience  and god/messiah is said to be the holy serpent (see John 3:14).

There is a bunch of verses in Bible that have wordplay. Another one is when Jesus talks about receiving fish or serpent... the Hebrew letter "nun" means serpent in Egyptian and fish in Aramaic.

Another example would be the letter gimel (G) meaning camel or genitals in Hebrew but in Aramaic is related to word for rope. The verse about camel through eye of needle has several meanings when you study it and only a fundamentalist would only take the Bible at surface/literal level but I didn't want to expect an atheist to think so similar to one. You really must give no credence to holy books, not even on a poetic level (but they have way deeper meanings for those that have experienced it) but they stand test of time for a reason. Dr Oppenheimer for example read the Hindu Vedas in Sanskrit which is why he quoted a Hindu god after making atomic bomb "I am become death"

[Blackleaf]

You can believe whatever you want, but the problem with personal experiences is that they only qualify as evidence to one person: You. I cannot verify your experiences. I don't know you. So why should I care? For all I know, you're experiencing delusions and/or hallucinations, possibly due to a medical condition, such as schizophrenia.

[NagaMorningstar]

You can believe whatever you want, but the problem with personal experiences is that they only qualify as evidence to one person: You. I cannot verify your experiences. I don't know you. So why should I care? For all I know, you're experiencing delusions and/or hallucinations, possibly due to a medical condition, such as schizophrenia.

Do you think we Bible characters experienced God they were schizophrenic? I've even heard people say it was due to being on drugs but these just aren't true. I don't blame you for not believing because when I was an atheist I didn't think anything like this was even possible so just couldn't enter my worldview so gets dismissed as hallucination/delusion or it is just an anecdote.

[Blackleaf]

Do you think we Bible characters experienced God they were schizophrenic? I've even heard people say it was due to being on drugs but these just aren't true. I don't blame you for not believing because when I was an atheist I didn't think anything like this was even possible so just couldn't enter my worldview so gets dismissed as hallucination/delusion or it is just an anecdote.

I assume you mean "the Bible characters," not "we Bible characters." If you consider yourself a Bible character...yeesh.

But no. I don't believe the Bible characters were on drugs. It's more reasonable to think the people who actually wrote the books made those stories up, including the characters. To claim that the characters were hallucinating or experiencing mass delusions already grants the stories more legitimacy than they deserve.

[Cassia]

I assume you mean "the Bible characters," not "we Bible characters." If you consider yourself a Bible character...yeesh.

But no. I don't believe the Bible characters were on drugs. It's more reasonable to think the people who actually wrote the books made those stories up, including the characters. To claim that the characters were hallucinating or experiencing mass delusions already grants the stories more legitimacy than they deserve.

Yes, serious history scholars consider Moses to be pure mythology, for example. The New Testament is an allegory written to preserve the dignity of Jews with a new start after the destruction of their temple during the Roman-Jewish war...by rehashing their scriptures. Easy to see for example how the crucifix scene was lifted from Psalm 22.


Psalm 22 Verse 1, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?", is quoted in Mark 15:34; Matthew 27:46

Psalm 22 Verse 7, "They hurl insults, shaking their heads", is quoted in Mark 15:29; Matthew 27:39

Psalm 22 Verse 8, "He trusted on the Lord that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him", is quoted in Matthew 27:43

Psalm 22 Verse 18, "They divide my clothes among them and cast lots for my garment", is quoted in Mark 15:24; Matthew 27:35; Luke 23:34; John 19:24

Psalm 22 Verse 22, "I will declare your name to my people; in the assembly I will praise you", is quoted Hebrews 2:12

In fact, you can barely find anything in the gospels that isn't a quote or rewrite, but you will never hear xtians admit this.

[NagaMorningstar]

I assume you mean "the Bible characters," not "we Bible characters." If you consider yourself a Bible character...yeesh.
[/quote

Haha yes. I've had a some of same experiences as Bible characters which is what my post was about and goes to show, to those with an open mind, that Bible is about real spiritual experiences

[Cassia]

[/quote
Haha yes. I've had a some of same experiences as Bible characters which is what my post was about and goes to show, to those with an open mind, that Bible is about real spiritual experiences
[/quote]

Nah, the bible is to keep you focused on the fake next life while you take it the hard way in this life. Ah but keep going on your symbological quest and monkey brain pattern recognition. But let me ask, how hard is to prove that prayers work? Are there published studie?. It's easy to prove, right? I mean why aren't the streets of Alabama paved with gold and full of healthy happy people? Yemen is full of the devout. Care to live there?

Then ponder a bit about Ophthalmomyiasis which is the ocular disorder caused by infestation of the human eye with fly larvae. Maggots may be seen in the conjunctival fornix or inside the eye. God's creation. That took some thought by the lord didn't it. Are you thoughtful or are you just gonna be all about psychotic episodes?

[NagaMorningstar]

[/quote
Haha yes. I've had a some of same experiences as Bible characters which is what my post was about and goes to show, to those with an open mind, that Bible is about real spiritual experiences


Nah, the bible is to keep you focused on the fake next life while you take it the hard way in this life. Ah but keep going on your symbological quest and monkey brain pattern recognition. But let me ask, how hard is to prove that prayers work? Are there published studie?. It's easy to prove, right? I mean why aren't the streets of Alabama paved with gold and full of healthy happy people? Yemen is full of the devout. Care to live there?

Then ponder a bit about Ophthalmomyiasis which is the ocular disorder caused by infestation of the human eye with fly larvae. Maggots may be seen in the conjunctival fornix or inside the eye. God's creation. That took some thought by the lord didn't it. Are you thoughtful or are you just gonna be all about psychotic episodes?

Prayers don't work much for me either even about spiritual stuff let alone getting my streets paved with gold though I haven't tried asking for that

[Blackleaf]

Haha yes. I've had a some of same experiences as Bible characters which is what my post was about and goes to show, to those with an open mind, that Bible is about real spiritual experiences

I have an open mind. I just don't believe everything people tell me. Demonstrate that what you're saying is true, and I'll believe it. But if you expect me to just "have faith," nah. I don't believe things for no reason.