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Former Muslim Apologist

Started by Jalal_T, November 13, 2022, 04:16:56 PM

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Most apologists are incapable of yielding on a single point. If you back them into a corner, they just change the subject or just continue repeating themselves like they don't understand a word you're saying. For you to be able to change your mind, especially with something as important as your religion, shows a great deal of intellectual honesty.

If Muslims are anything like Christians, though, they won't see it that way. They'll say you were either never a "true Muslim," or that you just didn't get it the way they do. Some might even accuse you of never having believed in the first place, and you just staged the whole thing to deceive the world. Anything to avoid accepting the truth that an honest atheist deconverted from their religion because of logic.
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville--


Thanks for the comment. Yes, some might call this intellectual honesty, although I think it is more of an unconditional surrender of a hard-headed Muslim apologist who had no choice but to swallow his argument, pride and obey the rational logic of Atheism.

I wanted to be a Muslim scholar of a different kind, I mean I thought I could be different, win all debates with non-Muslims and become sort of a hero of Islam. I was overconfident and inspired by Muslim scholars like Zakir Naik and Mr Deedat, and other Muslim scholars of the same kind. I had a lot of plans to make the debate results public using social media, e-forums, and publications.

After knowing my background and plans, Christian apologists were conservative and avoided my debate encounter -- although I insisted a lot. My confidence sky rocketed and I thought that I am truly invincible. Atheists and Secularists on the other hand accepted the challenge. As you said, I was cornered in the debate and could not escape because I initiated all that. I faced serious intellectual challenge in all arguments. I collapsed and surrendered. BTW, the arguments are well documented and we started publishing them in a dialog style, showing what I said, what they said and how the wrong logic collapsed, finally crowned by a statement of defeat acceptance. Christian apologists were delighted with the good news and we published the first argument on reddit. I will make a special post about it on this forum.

Something that I really appreciate and respect in Secularists and Atheists debaters is that although they have every reason and full right to expose all the details on the Internet -- especially that Muslim apologists always claim that these stories are fake -- they refrained as this may cause hurt to their defeated opponent. By doing so, they proved to be professional debaters with gentleman morals. They respected what they call "intellectual honesty". In return, I promised to apply my plans on myself. It is very fair to apply my plans on myself because I planned to apply them on my opponents  should I have won the debates.


Quote from: SGOS on November 29, 2022, 09:24:35 AMI could easily see "submitting to secularism" as just a second language stumble. Equally, it could be a Muslim (or any religious) perspective that one must submit to something, usually an ideology or suffer serious consequences.

Submission is absolutely not required of secularism, and certainly not of atheism.  Atheism is more like nothing or just a blank sheet of paper.  Instead of a heartfelt belief, there is just an absence of a specific belief.  Sure we have beliefs.  I believe my dog loves me, but that's just a belief, not something I submit to or even commit to. Beliefs that cannot be proven are not important, and some may even be dangerous.

The only reason atheists commit to debating with religions, is because religions are filled with logical fallacies of the highest order, and they try to impose nonsensical doctrines into our lives.  We argue with them in the lost hope that they will leave us alone, so that we can experience reality as it is and not what some prophet or the Pope wants it to be.

Being a former Muslim apologist, I know a little bit about the psychology of Muslims. Many Muslims online judge the truth of a thing just based on perceived strength and image. For example, apologists like Farid can have poor arguments, but he is one of the most popular Islamic apologists online because he speaks in a sarcastic voice. Another example is Muhammad Hijab, he says aggressive things and people think he is winning debates, it does not matter if he makes details up.

Some Muslim apologists accept the defeat and surrender others insist on their views. The appearance of submitting to non-Muslim is discrediting in the eyes of the Muslim audience. Many Muslims have a hard time accepting the fact that there are defeated Muslim apologists who accepted that and left Islam. The common reaction is that these testimonies are all fake. But some Muslims admitted that it is genuine because they were able to verify the cases see for example this one:

Mrs Khan and Mr Sultan also presented an extreme case, they called it "A Great Win!":

"Massive Islamic Preacher on YouTube Leaves Islam"

The preacher had 80,000 subscribers on his YouTube channel and a huge number of videos with thousands of views, some with more than 800,000 views. He took it personally to debunk Mr Sultan's book, but he could not do that and he admitted his defeat. As shown in the video, the case was fully verified through email messages, WhatsApp messages and recorded phone/video calls. The preacher is inspirer to some very active Muslim scholar(s) who used to debate atheists on YouTube and he is now planning to move to a western country. Mr Sultan asked him and YouTube not to delete the channel of the preacher, so they can present the content along with the preacher's fresh look. 

Here is another example: "Popular apologist FaridResponds debunks the widely cited story of an Indian King sighting the moon splitting."


Muslim and Christian are very much alike, both can only be supported by logical fallacy.  I can understand Muslims converting to Christianity, or the other way around, because they are both already programmed to accept teachings that cannot be validated logically.  One belief is simply substituted for another.

Christians use apologetic strategies as well. I don't pay attention.  I did for years as I considered myself a Christian in search of faith. I wanted to believe, but after years of searching, I slowly accepted the fact that I don't believe in gods, ghosts, spirits, or demons.  So now I just ignore the preachers.  I've heard all they have to say, and the ways they say it too many times to know that they are just wasting my time. 


Quote from: Jalal_T on November 13, 2022, 04:49:56 PMThank you! It is an honour for me to be a servant for the Atheist community.
Oh come now, we don't need or want servants, we only want people who can think clearly.
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman


Quote from: Jalal_T on November 13, 2022, 04:49:56 PMThank you! It is an honour for me to be a servant for the Atheist community.

Lololol wut
<br /><br />Individually, we are one drop.  Together, we are an ocean.<br /><br />