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Will Putin Invade Ukraine?

Started by Cassia, January 20, 2022, 01:29:34 PM

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Cassia

Funny how half the world won't wear a medical mask if a government asks them to but invading and murdering on their behalf is just ok...we're all in.

GSOgymrat

Quote from: Cassia on February 23, 2022, 11:42:25 PM
Funny how half the world won't wear a medical mask if a government asks them to but invading and murdering on their behalf is just ok...we're all in.

Based on the response to the pandemic and the current social and political climate, I wonder if Americans would put aside their differences and come together to defend the United States even if there was a direct attack on US soil.

SGOS

The invasion is underway, but there is no James Earl Jones announcing the CNN daily (hourly) report the way he did during the invasion of Iraq.  I guess this invasion must not be as much fun as when we pounded Iraq into the ground.  Funny! Absent are the hours of explosions and a night sky filled with anti aircraft fire brought to your home via television with a breathless Wolf Blitzer telling you not to leave the room during brief commercial breaks.  America doesn't seem up for this one, although it will certainly be as bloody and destructive.  There are other parallels too.  One is that both invasions are/were based on lies.  War is an odd endeavor.

Cassia

Quote from: SGOS on February 24, 2022, 08:05:16 AM
The invasion is underway, but there is no James Earl Jones announcing the CNN daily (hourly) report the way he did during the invasion of Iraq.  I guess this invasion must not be as much fun as when we pounded Iraq into the ground.  Funny! Absent are the hours of explosions and a night sky filled with anti aircraft fire brought to your home via television with a breathless Wolf Blitzer telling you not to leave the room during brief commercial breaks.  America doesn't seem up for this one, although it will certainly be as bloody and destructive.  There are other parallels too.  One is that both invasions are/were based on lies.  War is an odd endeavor.
Shock and Awe didn't really subdue Iraqi insurgents for long. I guess we shall see how committed the bulk of Ukrainians are to having their own country. Poland is about to get some evacuees fleeing ahead of the violence.

Cassia

Quote from: GSOgymrat on February 24, 2022, 01:09:37 AM
Based on the response to the pandemic and the current social and political climate, I wonder if Americans would put aside their differences and come together to defend the United States even if there was a direct attack on US soil.
I would think at least 70% would unite. Seems maybe 20% have just mentally gone off into some fictional existence where JFK, Trump, Elvis and Putin are saving the children from Clintons and another 10% just don't care about anything really.

Hydra009

#80
Quote from: GSOgymrat on February 24, 2022, 01:09:37 AM
Based on the response to the pandemic and the current social and political climate, I wonder if Americans would put aside their differences and come together to defend the United States even if there was a direct attack on US soil.
I'll give you three guesses.

Imagine simping for dictators around the world and calling yourself a defender of freedom and democracy.

Hydra009

Russia has declared war on Ukraine

There are now major military clashes as well as deliberate attacks on civilians by Russian forces.  There have also been rocket attacks launched from Belarus, so it's pretty obvious which axis of the conflict they're on.

viocjit

I'd like to know a thing I can't know for the moment because this information isn't public and will maybe be never published or after my death (I'm 28 years old. If the information is released in 100 years or more I would be dead accorded to medical knowledge of nowadays).

This thing is the next. The president of Russian Federation initially wanted to put Ukraine under pressure (When Russians troops were around the border between the two states) or he did prepared invasion for month or years ?

If Russia invades fully the Ukrainian territory.
Does it means Putin will attack a country member of European Union or / and a NATO member ?

If the President of Russia attack an EU country.
What will do others members of this union ? In this case I hope they will fight (Military or / and non-military) with the party under attack by any means.
EU countries have the legal obligation to assist each others in case of an attack.

If the Russian President choose to attack a state member of NATO. In this case I hope they will fight (Military or / and non-military) with the party under attack by any means.
Think about article 5 of the North Atlantic Treaty. It can be used. It can maybe finish in a nuclear war.
War isn't fun , war is devastating for all parties involved , war with two sides who have an access to nuclear weapons is terrifying if a faction or both choose to use these.

Full extract of article 5 in English :
"The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognised by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area.

Any such armed attack and all measures taken as a result thereof shall immediately be reported to the Security Council. Such measures shall be terminated when the Security Council has taken the measures necessary to restore and maintain international peace and security"


Link to the treaty on official NATO website : https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/official_texts_17120.htm
Text is available in 27 languages (Some of them aren't languages of NATO members. The language of some members isn't available) : Albanian , Armenian , Croatian , Czech , Danish , Dutch , English , Estonian , French , Georgian , German , Greek , Hebrew , Hungarian , Icelandic , Italian , Latvian , Lithuanian , Norwegian , Polish , Portuguese , Russian , Slovenian , Spanish , Turkish , Ukrainian.

Full extract of article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations (There are a reference to it in article 5 of the North Atlantic Treaty) :
"Nothing in the present Charter shall impair the inherent right of individual or collective self-defence if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the United Nations, until the Security Council has taken measures necessary to maintain international peace and security. Measures taken by Members in the exercise of this right of self-defence shall be immediately reported to the Security Council and shall not in any way affect the authority and responsibility of the Security Council under the present Charter to take at any time such action as it deems necessary in order to maintain or restore international peace and security."

Link to the charter on official UN website (Text available in the six official languages of UN that are Arabic , Chinese , English , French , Russian , Spanish) : https://www.un.org/en/about-us/un-charter

Hydra009

Quote from: viocjit on February 24, 2022, 12:23:08 PMIf Russia invades fully the Ukrainian territory.
Does it means Putin will attack a country member of European Union or / and a NATO member ?
Unknown.  What we do know is that Russia will invade a country without provocation if the country is militarily weaker and is utterly undeterred by sanctions or global opinion.

As long as Putin breathes, Russia is a security threat to any eastern european country and possibly beyond.  Naturally, any country on the chopping block will want to band together with as many other countries as possible to negate Russia's military superiority to avoid invasion, but even that might not be enough.

Mr.Obvious

"If we have to go down, we go down together!"
- Your mum, last night, requesting 69.

Atheist Mantis does not pray.

Hydra009

#85
Russian invaders temporarily seized control of an airport but were encircled and destroyed by Ukrainian forces:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Antonov_Airport 

Russian invaders took control of Chernobyl, reportedly with a large increase in local radiation.  They possibly have taken staff (civilians) hostage:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Chernobyl
https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-news-02-24-22-intl/h_e1c58950cd78614bc578a4c3a6515a2c

Russian invaders took control of Snake Island, killing all 13 Ukrainian border guards.  The guards will be awarded Hero of Ukraine posthumously.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Snake_Island

Shiranu

QuoteRussian invaders took control of Snake Island, killing all 13 Ukrainian border guards.  The guards will be awarded Hero of Ukraine posthumously.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Snake_Island

иди на Ñ...уй - "Fuck off.", the message they gave to the Russians that told them to standdown.

Respect, if you have to die at least go out with a middle finger.
"A little science distances you from God, but a lot of science brings you nearer to Him." - Louis Pasteur

Shiranu

"A little science distances you from God, but a lot of science brings you nearer to Him." - Louis Pasteur


aitm

A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust