From Hard Atheist to Hard Christian?

[GurrenLagann]

I too call bullshit. Christians can often very easily lie or extremely exaggerate events if it's "for the faith", hence the phrase "Liars for Jesus". This just reminds me of all the bullshit stories Christians make up aboutt atheist professors who try to disprove God's existence by doing something stupid like saying "I'll stand on this chair for 15 minutes and if God doesn't knock me off in the time limit he obviously doesn't exist", or those about some rather idiotic Christian who, through some absurdly stupid pointing out of some pedanticly obvious fact, manages to convert an atheist professor.


And much of the historical evidence relating to Christianity, among other things, confirms/greatly evidences obvious Biblical errancy, pillaged beliefs from neighboring cultures, non-historical nature of several texts (like Exodus and Genesis) and widely differing theological views amongst early Christians - from Ebionite Christians, to Gnostic Christians, to Marcionite Christians and the proto-orthodox Christians that eventually became the majority - with regard to all-manner of beliefs including the divinity of Jesus and whether or not there were 2 Gods.

[FrankDK]

I read somewhere there's a form of epilepsy that can cause symptoms like these.

Frank

[aitm]

Bullshit as well; There is nothing in the bable that can be construed as facts, actually most of it is easily and I do mean easily proven to be bullshit. I think this is a drive by stupid who once read a article about the bable which they have never actually read and being too fucking lazy to actually read the piece of shit, decided to challenge us to disprove it. big whop. The bable is stupid shit believed by people who are stupid.

[Hakurei Reimu]

Ever notice that these stories never come with names attached? It's always "some atheist", no specifics. Never a rounded individual, or even the sense of one. And look how quickly they are converted, with an armor-piercing argument or the holey book/passage or altering experience. Like a magical fairy tale.

Because that's what it is. A fairy tale. There is no real person who makes this life-changing choice just like that. People aren't wired like that. There's always regret, introspection, resistance, and a whole lot of pain going either way.

These stories are made up out of whole cloth.

[stromboli]

We've had some people on here who claimed they were atheists and then became religious. In every instance it was clear they were full of BS. To go from being an analytical person to outright believing something based entirely on faith might be possible, but it would not be the normal course of events for most people.

[Savior2006]

I actually did know a guy who was like that once, when I was going to church because I wanted to bang this one Republican chick girl (what?! Don't look at me like that!). Buuuut the key thing was that he said he was a "born again Christians" which makes me think he had already been swallowing the bullshit for sometime and was feeling hungry. He said to me he'd been reading evolution during this time off and found it to be a bunch of crap.

I'm always going to be skeptical of "atheist to Christian" (or any other religion of that matter). If someone knows and understands the faults of religion, I really don't see how he/she can wake up one morning and decide those faults don't exist, or that the lies are worth the "comfort."

[StupidWiz]

I really don't see how he/she can wake up one morning and decide those faults don't exist, or that the lies are worth the "comfort."

I know right, I can never understand people who do that, "former atheists".  :roll:

[Agramon]

I really don't see how he/she can wake up one morning and decide those faults don't exist, or that the lies are worth the "comfort."

I know right, I can never understand people who do that, "former atheists".  :roll:

Sometimes people leave religion but never really cut the cord. They're just "cold Christians" (or whatever faith they follow) - the spiritual equivalent of dry kindling waiting for the spark of their discordant consciences to reignite their faith.

[Minimalist]

So, a Christian friend of mine has told me twice now of some hard Atheist's that she knew - her father and former pastor - who read the Bible, and - poof - saw the light!

Sounds like a dump truck full of bullshit.

These xtians are very ready to believe what they wish.

[Jorjor]

Seems unlikely. You'd have to be pretty dumb to think it's all correct, unless you start with the idea that it's all right and then start from there.

And that's what I don't get. Atheists typically do a lot of research to come to their final non-belief, so how can you just jump from facts to all that... mess.

I think it's easier than people might think. Some people in the end decide to choose comfort over logic and facts.

[Savior2006]

I really don't see how he/she can wake up one morning and decide those faults don't exist, or that the lies are worth the "comfort."

I know right, I can never understand people who do that, "former atheists".  :roll:

Sometimes people leave religion but never really cut the cord. They're just "cold Christians" (or whatever faith they follow) - the spiritual equivalent of dry kindling waiting for the spark of their discordant consciences to reignite their faith.

I've met plenty of "lapsed" Christians. They say they believe in God, but don't really practice anything or go to church in anyway.

[SGOS]

I did know a guy that made a sort of transformation back in my home town.  He was the local drug dealer, a thief, and vandal.  He would get drunk and then destroy property, and was continually in and out of the local jail.  I don't think he was an evil person, just someone without regard for anything.  I always thought he had some sort of emotional problem.  I left town for a few years, and when I returned, he had done the flip to Christianity.  He pestered me on the street about it the first time I ran into him.  He had been saved, and gotten married to a nice Christian girl.  They would both write letters to the editor condemning this or that sin.  Abortion was a biggy of course.

Now, I don't actually know if he was an atheist prior to his "conversion".  We never talked about such things.  In fact, we never talked about any issue of substance.  He was always just too damn nuts to talk to about anything.  He is a person of extremes, without any middle ground.  He takes the same pride in being a Christian that he formerly took in being a public nuisance.  In the end, I admit his story contributes little to the discussion.  I'm just talking about a crazy person. :-D

[Brian37]

Alrighty, here is a question I have been DYING to ask some other agnostic/atheist people.

So, a Christian friend of mine has told me twice now of some hard Atheist's that she knew - her father and former pastor - who read the Bible, and - poof - saw the light! Supposedly her father went out to disprove the Bible but realized historical facts matched up, and the other tried to disprove the entire Bible but realized it was ALL TRUE! Now, I maybe a decedent of a monkey, but I don't feel like no fool today. I have honestly NEVER heard of this happening, mind you I have not been an agnostic very long, let alone spoke about it openly with other people - since most just shoved their bloody religion down my throat anyway - but I wanted to know what you guys thought, or any other stories that you might have heard about this amazing phenomenon that striking the atheist community.

Personally, just to me, it sounds like a cheesy line some creep feeds you to get into your pants. Or, in this case, your common senses.

To say it is impossible for an atheist to convert and "find god" would be absurd. I would question however, the degree of education as to holding the atheist position as being key to more immunity for falling for elaborate tripe.

I have known people who have claimed to be "former atheists", and what I usually find is that they consider "atheist" as being going against the word of god, which is not the definition of an atheist. Or, they simply lacked the deep education required to be immune to slick snake oil salesmen.

I think once you have a very deep understanding through knowledge of evolution and what scientific method means, and you know the fallacies of theists arguments to the multiple ways they mask their bad arguments, it becomes highly improbable for that person to get sucked into religion.

Terms atheists should know.

Infinite regress, the problem god claims have
Ocham's Razor "The most likely solution to a problem is the one with the least baggage"
Circular Reasoning "Quoting a holy book to prove a holy book"
Fallacy of Argument from tradition
Fallacy of Argument from popularity
Fallacy of Pascal's Wager

Fallacy of using science to prop up a myth. If science worked like that then the theist should be willing to accept the argument of other believers with other gods if they use the same tactic.

Books atheists should read.
"The God Delusion" Richard Dawkins
"God Is Not Great" Christopher Hitchens
"The New Atheism" Victor Stenger
" The End of Faith" Sam Harris
"Infidel" Ayaan Hersi Ali

Other resources.

www.skepticsannotatedbible.com also includes Koran and book of Mormon

www.positiveatheism.com List of atheist and deist quotes valuing questioning and skepticism

www.rationalresponders.com

www.atheist.org

www.ffrf.org "Freedom From Religion Foundation"

That is a very short list, but study study study, their arguments and ours.

I cant say what the future will hold, but I can say to a high degree with what I know now,  barring some brain trauma or mental illness, being in a lucid state, I don't see myself falling for any god claim.

God claims were not around 4 billion years ago when the planet formed. After our planet dies there will be no record of our species existence nor the superstitions humans concoct.

If someone claims they were an atheist but now believe, I won't argue they were not, I would argue that they lacked enough of a deep understanding of how slick theists can be in mentally trapping them.

[SGOS]

I think once you have a very deep understanding through knowledge of evolution and what scientific method means, and you know the fallacies of theists arguments to the multiple ways they mask their bad arguments, it becomes highly improbable for that person to get sucked into religion.

The underline is the key, I think.  It's possible to be an atheist for the wrong reasons like "I'm an atheist because I want to do sinful things."  I call that a wrong reason because it doesn't make logical sense.  While there doesn't actually have to be a right or wrong reason for atheism, the only one that makes sense to me is the logical argument.  Therein lies the importance of the underlined part above.  Similarly, the only logical reason to reject a religious argument it in spotting the fallacies on which it is based.  As far as I know, every religious argument, at least those that deal with the existence of God issue, have at least one fallacy that negates it.  As a side issue, having three fallacies does nothing to negate it further.  One is all that is necessary.

[La Dolce Vita]

We've had some people on here who claimed they were atheists and then became religious. In every instance it was clear they were full of BS. To go from being an analytical person to outright believing something based entirely on faith might be possible, but it would not be the normal course of events for most people.

Well, there's no connection between being an atheist and being analytical. Hell, I've known plenty of atheists who believe in ghosts, psychics and healing. And some of them are strong atheists.

If someone knows and understands the faults of religion, I really don't see how he/she can wake up one morning and decide those faults don't exist, or that the lies are worth the "comfort."

Why would you assume that all/most atheists know/understand the faults of religion? Hell, there are atheistic religions (+ atheistic denominations within religions).

Seems unlikely. You'd have to be pretty dumb to think it's all correct, unless you start with the idea that it's all right and then start from there.

And that's what I don't get. Atheists typically do a lot of research to come to their final non-belief, so how can you just jump from facts to all that... mess.

That's only if they were indoctrinated in the first place. People growing up in secular/atheist countries/households don't have that issue, and usually don't think about the question of religion at all - unless in a heavily religious culture that is - and the many caves - including Obama (granted, many thinks he's just lying about being a christian and that he's still an atheist).