Is nature like intelligent design, or is intelligent design like nature?

Started by Jagella, October 08, 2021, 06:07:24 PM

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SGOS

Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on January 23, 2022, 03:26:13 PM
So unintelligent design then?
"Intelligent Design" may be what??  I dunno, maybe evolution guided my the hand of a creator, or maybe it's just plain old "God made man on Saturday, and the job was finished."

Evolution doesn't require a hand of guidance.  It doesn't preclude the existence of a creative intelligence, but it doesn't require one either.  If anything, evolution is neither "intelligent" or "designed."  It is as you point out, "unintelligent design," and anything that looks designed is just happenstance.   If it were intelligently designed, I would expect far less imperfection and far more intelligence than the pitiful products we see in the environment around us.

Greatest I am

Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on January 23, 2022, 03:26:13 PM
So unintelligent design then?

Where do you see a lack of intelligence in nature?

Do you see what follows as intelligent?

------------

The Gnostic Christian reality.

Gnostic Christian Jesus said,  "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all.
[And after they have reigned they will rest.]"

"If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.

If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.

Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.

[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.

But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

As you can see from that quote, if we see God's kingdom all around us and inside of us, we cannot think that the world is anything but evolving perfection. Most just don't see it and live in poverty. Let me try to make you see the world the way I do.

Here is a mind exercise. Tell me what you see when you look around. The best that can possibly be, given our past history, or an ugly and imperfect world?

Candide.
"It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”

That means that we live in the best of all possible worlds, because it is the only possible world, given all the conditions at hand and the history that got us here. That is an irrefutable statement given entropy and the anthropic principle.

Regards
DL



Jason Harvestdancer

White privilege is being a lifelong racist, then being sent to the White House twice because your running mate is a minority.<br /><br />No Biden, no KKK, no Fascist USA!

Greatest I am

Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on January 28, 2022, 09:26:41 PM
First hand experience says "the human knee".

Most are ok but do you have a better natural design in mind?

I think the design quite good.

We are supposed to walk about 10 miles a day but we are too lazy, sit a lot and screw our own bodies up.

If we lived more naturally and physically, you would not likely have that problem.

Regards
DL

Hydra009

Quote from: Greatest I am on January 28, 2022, 07:33:32 PMWhere do you see a lack of intelligence in nature?
Oh man, where to start.  Do you wear glasses?  Did you ever have braces?  Wisdom teeth removed?  Back pain?  Migraines?  Random pain for no reason?  Insomnia?  Ever almost choke on friggin' water?

Hydra009

Quote from: Greatest I am on January 28, 2022, 10:01:36 PMMost are ok but do you have a better natural design in mind?
Something that doesn't give out after 40 years.

QuoteWe are supposed to walk about 10 miles a day but we are too lazy, sit a lot and screw our own bodies up.

If we lived more naturally and physically, you would not likely have that problem.
Sedentary habits exacerbate the problem, but they're not the cause of the problem.  The cause of the problem is a 4-legs bodyplan going bipedal.  Puts quite a lot more strain on the joints.  Almost as jarring a switch as going from water-based to land-based.

Greatest I am

Quote from: Hydra009 on January 28, 2022, 10:20:11 PM
Something that doesn't give out after 40 years.
Sedentary habits exacerbate the problem, but they're not the cause of the problem.  The cause of the problem is a 4-legs bodyplan going bipedal.  Puts quite a lot more strain on the joints.  Almost as jarring a switch as going from water-based to land-based.

Lack of intelligence is normal in a non-sentient concept like nature.

Do you expect to be born and die in some pristine form?

You might want to recognize that you are in the best possible body you can have, given nature and your history.

Sure it is ugly and defective to you, perhaps, but it is the best you can be.

Entropy makes no exceptions.

Regards
DL

Greatest I am

Quote from: Hydra009 on January 28, 2022, 10:20:11 PM
Something that doesn't give out after 40 years.

My body did not and I am almost twice your age, sunny.

Sympathies are all I can offer you.

Regards
DL

Gawdzilla Sama

It's "sonny", see The Hitchhiker's Guide to Awkward Condescension.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Greatest I am

Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on January 30, 2022, 01:37:29 PM
It's "sonny", see The Hitchhiker's Guide to Awkward Condescension.

Say that in my native French.

It sounds like you are awkward with a condom.

Their is an app for that, so I hear.

I would not have any thing first hand on that.

You will get better at it when you get out of your mom's basement, Sonny.

Get back to your porn now.

Regards
DL

Hydra009

Quote from: Greatest I am on January 29, 2022, 11:58:13 AM
Do you expect to be born and die in some pristine form?

You might want to recognize that you are in the best possible body you can have, given nature and your history.

Sure it is ugly and defective to you, perhaps, but it is the best you can be.
It is the best one can hope for if-and-only-if the human bodyplan is the result of descent with modification.  Take a great ape, take it out of the trees and onto the savannah, and this is kinda the best you can hope for, bum knee and astigmatism and allergies and possibly something so rare that I get to name it someday.  Fingers crossed.

But if you were to make a human from scratch (you would first have to create the universe) you definitely wouldn't go with backwards eyes, an overcrowded jaw, a useless tailbone, and a mystery organ that may or may not do anything useful but definitely isn't needed and sometimes ruptures, which can cause death.



drunkenshoe

Is there some sort of special reason that I'm not aware we need to put up with this? Because we have made dozens and dozens of threads about these titles, discussed and discussed about them in the last 12 years I've been here alone. I could care less about someone who calls himself "Greatest I am", and thinks he is 'educating' people about them with teenager wisdom in the last few weeks.

"I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are good people and bad people. You're wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides." Havelock Vetinari

Greatest I am