Started by Jagella, October 07, 2021, 08:29:19 PM
Quote from: Greatest I am on January 09, 2022, 04:17:37 PMThe oldest serpent shrine I know of us 75,000 years old.
QuoteCave paintings are even older.
QuoteMost scholars see spirituality and or religion in burial practices.
QuoteSomething like 96% of us think dualistically and posit our immaterial soul as a mystery, just as God was intended and is a mystery.
QuoteThe mainstream religions have forgotten that and are just cheep idol worshipers of a mostly evil god.
Quote from: Greatest I am on January 10, 2022, 01:04:01 PMMost atheists and other non-believers say they are spiritual and not religious.
Quote from: trdsf on January 10, 2022, 06:45:26 PMYou're going to need some sort of source for that, rather than the bald assertion. Speaking for myself, no atheist that I've ever met has claimed to be spiritual. They are in the main pretty thoroughgoing realists.
Quote from: Greatest I am on January 11, 2022, 02:04:17 PMThey are, more than you are, unless your in the 4%.Here is what I have.At about 16.00, the show of hands indicates a highly left leaning group.Further in, the spiritual thinking is shown.https://www.ted.com/talks/jonathan_haidt_the_moral_roots_of_liberals_and_conservatives?language=enAll spiritual thinking is, is moral thinking and atheists are better at it than the religious.There is nothing supernatural about spiritual thinking.Think of spirit of the law as compared to the letter of the law.Atheists are less insecure without a fear of God and make better choices.RegardsDL
Quote from: Mike Cl on January 11, 2022, 06:20:42 PMYou like to use the word 'moral' a lot. What does that mean to you?
Quote from: trdsf on January 12, 2022, 12:27:37 PMThat's word salad, I asked for data. If you're going to say that atheists identify as spiritual, where's the research study, or even just a set of polls from Pew or Gallup, rather than a show of hands in an audience self-selected to be present that talk?You can't redefine morality as 'spiritual thinking' and then use that as the basis to back your assertion. Morality has a basis in concrete reality, even if it's as simple as "don't be shitty to people because you don't want them being shitty back at you". And 'spirituality' is a word with a primary meaning, which you are deliberately ignoring in order to make a baseless and rather ridiculous claim.The camel's nose in the tent flap here is that once you apply 'spirituality' to atheism, then the tu quoque fallacy of "so atheism is just another religion too" almost immediately follows.And for the record, I was raised Roman Catholic and then converted to Wicca before I finally dispensed with woo. I know spiritual thinking pretty intimately, and I go out of my way to not practice it.
Quote from: Greatest I am on January 12, 2022, 04:06:37 PMWord salad ditto.I gave you the data and stats on 94% of us thinking in a dualistic body soul/spirit way.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IqYHiejTVMIf you wish, research whatever other stat you want.You do not seem to know much about atheism.Word salad.tâ€™s chat about the atheist religion.Believers in the mainstream god religions often denigrate and discriminate against atheists, non-believers and rival religions on moral grounds. Godless mean without a moral sense to them.I seek a solution to this problem, as the godless, statistically speaking, seem more moral, law abiding and peaceful than traditional mainstream religious believers who, ironically, claim a superior moral position, while having an inferior one. Statistics are quite clear on this. As a Gnostic Christian, I get it from both sides. From believers who see me as an atheist and from atheists who see me as a believer. Both sides are wrong, given that Gnostic Christians are esoteric ecumenist and free-thinking naturalist, --- who hold no supernatural beliefs, --- regardless of the lies put into history by the inquisitors who decimated us, --- but never annihilated us. We are a religion of perpetual seekers of knowledge and wisdom, who raise the bar of excellence whenever we think we have the best ideological position.This prevents the idol worshiping of the immoral gods, that the mainstream religions are prone to follow. This makes Gnostic Christianity a superior ideology. Perhaps this open-mindedness explains the hate towards us from god believers, as well as towards atheists and other non-believers that believers target.Solutions to this endless denigration and discrimination are hard to come by, given that governments are not promoting any kind of dialog between the various religions and non-believers and allow religions to continue promoting vile homophobic and misogynous teachings.To my way of thinking, be you following a theology and named god, a philosophy of a named philosopher, a religion that puts man above god and focuses on knowledge and wisdom like mine, a political tribe like Democrats and Republican, statism or any other thinking system, --- all groups named are following an ideology, --- and can thus be seem and described as a religion.It is thus proper English to call atheism a religion. In fact, given the stats, atheism is a more moral religion than most. I am thinking that if all atheist proudly took on the religion label, --- as their atheist churches are doing, --- more god believing religionist would likely opt for atheism as their religion so as to improve their moral sense.Take your deserved bow my atheist friends. You are now second only to my own Gnostic Christianity. We Gnostic Christian did what I advise here before the inquisitors got to us and that may be why we were known as the only good Christians.RegardsDLSince following an ideology is a prerequisite of religion, atheism can be considered a religion, since atheists draws on philosophical ideologies to guide ideas, behaviors, and actions, like that of any religion. That is why atheist churches are called atheist churches.Atheists Are Sometimes More Religious Than ChristiansA new study shows how poorly we understand the beliefs of people who identify as atheist, agnostic, or nothing in particular.Americans are deeply religious peopleâ€"and atheists are no exception. Western Europeans are deeply secular peopleâ€"and Christians are no exception.These twin statements are generalizations, but they capture the essence of a fascinating finding in a new study about Christian identity in Western Europe. By surveying almost 25,000 people in 15 countries in the region, and comparing the results with data previously gathered in the U.S., the Pew Research Center discovered three things.First, researchers confirmed the widely known fact that, overall, Americans are much more religious than Western Europeans. They gauged religious commitment using standard questions, including â€œDo you believe in God with absolute certainty?â€ and â€œDo you pray daily?â€Second, the researchers found that American â€œnonesâ€â€"those who identify as atheist, agnostic, or nothing in particularâ€"are more religious than European nones. The notion that religiously unaffiliated people can be religious at all may seem contradictory, but if you disaffiliate from organized religion it does not necessarily mean youâ€™ve sworn off belief in God, say, or prayer.The third finding reported in the study is by far the most striking. As it turns out, â€œAmerican â€˜nonesâ€™ are as religious asâ€"or even more religious thanâ€"Christians in several European countries, including France, Germany, and the U.K.â€â€œThat was a surprise,â€ Neha Sahgal, the lead researcher on the study, told me. â€œThatâ€™s the comparison thatâ€™s fascinating to me.â€ She highlighted the fact that whereas only 23 percent of European Christians say they believe in God with absolute certainty, 27 percent of American nones say this.America is a country so suffused with faith that religious attributes abound even among the secular. Consider the rise of â€œatheist churches,â€ which cater to Americans who have lost faith in supernatural deities but still crave community, enjoy singing with others, and want to think deeply about morality. Itâ€™s religion, minus all the God stuff. This is a phenomenon spreading across the country, from the Seattle Atheist Church to the North Texas Church of Freethought. The Oasis Network, which brings together non-believers to sing and learn every Sunday morning, has affiliates in nine U.S. cities.Last month, almost 1,000 people streamed into a [Atheist] church in San Francisco for an unprecedented event billed as â€œBeyoncÃ© Mass.â€ Most were people of color and members of the LGBTQ community. Many were secular. They used Queen Beyâ€™s songs, which are replete with religious symbolism, as the basis for a communal celebrationâ€"one that had all the trappings of a religious service. That seemed completely fitting to some, including one reverend who said, â€œBeyoncÃ© is a better theologian than many of the pastors and priests in our church today.â€https://www.theatlantic.com/interna...theists-religious-european-christians/560936/RegardsDL
Quote from: Greatest I am on January 12, 2022, 03:56:52 PMThe Bible, as a consolidation of many creeds, and wisdom sayings, tries to do what all books of wisdom try to have us do. Evolve to a better form.The present idol worshiping mainstream religions prevent that.We will return to better days and thinking soon.I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.https://bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2Further.http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/03132009/watch.htmlRabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths."Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning." Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02ciandvg&feature=BFa&list=PLCBF574DRegardsDL
Quote from: Greatest I am on January 12, 2022, 04:06:37 PMWord salad ditto.
Quote from: Greatest I am on January 12, 2022, 04:06:37 PMI gave you the data and stats on 94% of us thinking in a dualistic body soul/spirit way.
Quote from: Greatest I am on January 12, 2022, 04:06:37 PMYou do not seem to know much about atheism.
Quote from: Greatest I am on January 12, 2022, 04:06:37 PMtâ€™s chat about the atheist religion.
Quote from: Greatest I am on January 12, 2022, 04:06:37 PMTo my way of thinking, be you following a theology and named god, a philosophy of a named philosopher, a religion that puts man above god and focuses on knowledge and wisdom like mine, a political tribe like Democrats and Republican, statism or any other thinking system, --- all groups named are following an ideology, --- and can thus be seem and described as a religion.
Quote from: Greatest I am on January 12, 2022, 03:56:52 PMThe Bible, as a consolidation of many creeds, and wisdom sayings, tries to do what all books of wisdom try to have us do. Evolve to a better form.
Quote from: SoldierofFortune on January 12, 2022, 05:01:32 PMAs to body soul dualism;I havent really thought about it, and made extensive reading related to the problem.