Is it wrong to tell Christians what's wrong with their religion?

Started by Jagella, October 07, 2021, 08:29:19 PM

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Greatest I am

Quote from: aitm on December 19, 2021, 12:14:56 PM
“Might be” only from the gnostic, whereas an atheist might see a gnostic as simply another fool
Proof that a well read person does not mean they are intelligent.


True. Intelligence is just the ability to remember. It takes a smart person to connect the dots and understand what is read.

The fool is the one who does not recognize that his enemies enemy is his friend.

Stop being a fool, stupid.

Regards
DL

aitm



QuoteStop being a fool, stupid.

Regards
DL

Say that to a mirror. It's far more appropriate
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Hydra009

Quote from: Greatest I am on December 19, 2021, 12:29:01 PMIntelligence is just the ability to remember.
I'm not certain, but I think you may have intelligence confused with memory.

SGOS

Memory is just one component of intelligence, and not the sum total of all the components.  I used to give intelligence tests, and there were a couple of memory testing exercises, but they only made up maybe less than 5% of the test. Although it's been years since I've given one of those.

SGOS

Quote from: Greatest I am on December 19, 2021, 12:29:01 PM
It takes a smart person to connect the dots and understand what is read.
This is a more relevant aspect of intelligence than simple memory.

Greatest I am

Quote from: Hydra009 on December 19, 2021, 04:40:45 PM
I'm not certain, but I think you may have intelligence confused with memory.

Ok. Make it memory that is worthless without smarts to connect everything.

A computer has way more memory than I do but look at how stupid computers are.

Regards
DL

i

Greatest I am


SoldierofFortune

yes, it is wrong to tell Christians whats wrong.

There were Turkish public intellectual. He was assasinated to death, unsuccesfully.

He said something like this: Oh my country, You have been sleeping so beautifully that out of mercy I couldnt dare waking you up.(free translation of mine)

Greatest I am

Quote from: SoldierofFortune on January 07, 2022, 05:53:00 PM
yes, it is wrong to tell Christians whats wrong.

There were Turkish public intellectual. He was assasinated to death, unsuccesfully.

He said something like this: Oh my country, You have been sleeping so beautifully that out of mercy I couldnt dare waking you up.(free translation of mine)

Insert gays and women harmed by homophobic and misogynous religions to this quote. You should get an idea of what you should be doing with the homophobic and misogynous mainstream religions if you live by the golden rule.

Let me know if you do.

Martin Niemöller
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak outâ€"because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak outâ€" because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak outâ€"because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for meâ€"and there was no one left to speak for me.

Regards
DL

aitm

Quote from: Greatest I am on January 08, 2022, 10:48:53 AM
Insert gays and women harmed by homophobic and misogynous religions to this quote. You should get an idea of what you should be doing with the homophobic and misogynous mainstream religions if you live by the golden rule.

Regards
DL


I am of a differing opinion in that neither racism or homophobia was originally due to religion. As humanity evolved in tribal cultures one domiate male would usually assume control probably by intimidation or force. He took the food he wanted and the females he wanted. Other tribes were to be wary of, and usually correctly so, people of other colors were easily distinguishable and as such would be considered adversarial. So in that, racism wasn’t born as racist but merely seen as preservation or protection of the tribe. That could easily evolve into racism by the tribal leader declaring edicts against those tribes and using whatever motivational ideas he could to insure they were avoided. Thus racism was born of fear and insecurity and blossomed into unwarranted hate simply because it was taught as such

As tribal culture continued to evolve leaders died and the next man took over. Somewhere along the line the idea of inheritance came to a larger role of a tribe. Now a powerful or even great leader was seen as not just a leader but as the generator of the next line. He and the assumed mother had a large role in the tribe and as such enjoyed greater amenities, their off-spring, specifically the male would be treated better then the other children, and receive the attention and protection to a greater degree being the child of the leader.

As a leader got older, his son was inline to inherit the role, his parents, the former leaders were still afforded certain amenities and privileges as long as they lived, more specifically the father. Because of this the son’s achievements were of great importance to the father, having a gay child did not necessarily mean an inferior warrior, but a sons preference for men or boys over women would surely cause some consternation to his father, and perhaps more than a little embarrassment. And if they lived long enough in general to even have grandchildren the original leader would be content and proud that his succession would be long lived. It is not inconceivable that a father disappointed by his sons choices could simply kill him and proclaim the next son to be the next leader. As everyone may have been well aware of the sons proclivity it is a reasonable assumption to I magine that other males who may have been gay recognized the danger in exhibiting that behavior. So I am not sure I buy completely into the idea that religion started homophobia, but it certainly took the baton and sprinted to the finish line.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

trdsf

Quote from: Greatest I am on December 19, 2021, 12:29:01 PM
True. Intelligence is just the ability to remember. It takes a smart person to connect the dots and understand what is read.

The fool is the one who does not recognize that his enemies enemy is his friend.

Stop being a fool, stupid.

Regards
DL
Wrong.  The enemy of my enemy is an ally, not necessarily permanently, and not necessarily a friend.

Dick Cheney standing in the well of the House speaking out against Trumpism doesn't make him my friend and doesn't absolve him of his warmongering, war profiteering, and support of torture.
"My faith in the Constitution is whole, it is complete, it is total, and I am not going to sit here and be an idle spectator to the diminution, the subversion, the destruction of the Constitution." -- Barbara Jordan

Gawdzilla Sama

Quote from: trdsf on January 08, 2022, 11:54:54 AM
The enemy of my enemy is an ally, not necessarily permanently, and not necessarily a friend.
The enemy of my enemy is a resource.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Greatest I am

Quote from: aitm on January 08, 2022, 11:20:25 AM
I am of a differing opinion in that neither racism or homophobia was originally due to religion.

Your opinion is wrong, given that humans have always been tribal and spiritual. King, and Shaman have been with us forever.

We came out of the trees and caves, and like all male run animal groups of that intelligence, the top dog would not waste a hunter, who also reduced the numbers of challengers to his right to all women.
 
No other animal of our past intelligence cared about those whose DNA had reduced the pressure on the top males.

To be homophobic would be to not have as many friends, and in those days, friends were everything.

Things were too tough to be any other way.

Only later did homophobes show their propensity and mental defect of putting sex and gender above love.

I agree with your last.

Regards
DL

Hydra009

Quote from: Greatest I am on January 08, 2022, 05:05:02 PMYour opinion is wrong, given that humans have always been tribal and spiritual.
Tribal, yes, since that's how chimps operate and early humans were likely quite similar.  Spiritual?  I'm going to need a citation for that.

aitm

Quote from: Greatest I am on January 08, 2022, 05:05:02 PM
Your opinion is wrong, given that humans have always been tribal and spiritual. King, and Shaman have been with us forever.

We came out of the trees and caves, and like all male run animal groups of that intelligence, the top dog would not waste a hunter, who also reduced the numbers of challengers to his right to all women.
 
No other animal of our past intelligence cared about those whose DNA had reduced the pressure on the top males.

To be homophobic would be to not have as many friends, and in those days, friends were everything.

Things were too tough to be any other way.

Only later did homophobes show their propensity and mental defect of putting sex and gender above love.

I agree with your last.

Regards
DL

I would simply suggest that your opinion is wrong. The idea that a “superior” male would not kill his second because it would lessen their hunting abilities at the sacrifice of his mating with whomever he wanted is not realistic. We have had wars…many wars over a woman…not so many over a hamburger. Give a man a fuck..he’ll skip dinner for two days..give a man a filet instead of a fuck..,he’ll still take the fuck,
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust