Is it wrong to tell Christians what's wrong with their religion?

Started by Jagella, October 07, 2021, 08:29:19 PM

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Greatest I am

Quote from: trdsf on January 13, 2022, 06:45:46 AM
Ah, right into the predicted tu quoque.  You seem to really be fond of the sound of your own typing, to have thrown up so many words to say nothing at all.
You did no such thing.  I asked for studies, you pointed to videos and a nonexistent page at The Atlantic.  You may be shocked to learn this, but there's a difference between 'data' and 'oh, this sounds good' -- and in any case, The Atlantic is not a scientific journal.
You don't seem to know much, period.
And there is is.

There is no such thing as 'the atheist religion'.  Claiming it is makes no more sense than claiming that not collecting stamps is a hobby.
(emphasis added)

Your way of thinking is demonstrably wrong.  Following a philosophy may be a perfectly rational matter.  Your definition would include the scientific method as a religion.  And while there are religion-like traits among various secular groups (usually involving a cult of personality around a leader -- compare North Korea, Trumpists, and Stalinism), they are still not religions.

Regarding the highlighted section -- that's right up there with the smug arrogance of the extremist evangelicals, and right now I don't see much difference between them and you.  The absolute self-assurance of blind belief has the same stench, regardless of the belief.

???

What is an atheist church, stupid?

What blind belief are you putting into me with all your personal garbage?

Be clear, or just fuck off, if all you want to do is go personal.

Regards
DL

Greatest I am

Quote from: aitm on January 13, 2022, 09:11:39 AM
Yea….I don’t think so. The last thing the ancient books of “ wisdom” (snorts) wanted to do….at least those of a religious nature was for man to evolve. They wanted them to remain in place, dutiful to the word and maintain the word and the way….and to pay them and give them the power to fuck you over.

Religious and political principles are interchangeable.

All con artist principles look alike.

Politicians have maintained the Noble Lie for religions forever, so I see one as no better than the other con men terms of honesty.

Regards
DL

Hydra009

Quote from: Greatest I am on January 13, 2022, 10:10:44 AMWhy do you see our substance dualism  as a problem?
Do you ever wonder why people say two different types of things definitely exist but can ever only ever demonstrate the existence of one of them?

Greatest I am

Quote from: Hydra009 on January 13, 2022, 10:26:06 AM
Do you ever wonder why people say two different types of things definitely exist but can ever only ever demonstrate the existence of one of them?

No, given that most of us just accept our dual nature.

Telepathy, in my case, gave me the evidence and proof I needed to prove that concept to be real, in a certain way.

No. I do not visualize an immaterial copy of me.

Just what I project telepathically in terms of thoughts.

If you do not have a belief in telepathy, I understand.

Regards
DL


Gawdzilla Sama

We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Hydra009

Quote from: Greatest I am on January 13, 2022, 10:38:41 AMNo, given that most of us just accept our dual nature.
Right.  Just like how most of us just accept Santa or ghosts.

QuoteTelepathy, in my case, gave me the evidence and proof I needed to prove that concept to be real, in a certain way.
Well, the -pathy part is correct...

trdsf

Quote from: Greatest I am on January 13, 2022, 10:15:47 AM
???

What is an atheist church, stupid?

What blind belief are you putting into me with all your personal garbage?

Be clear, or just fuck off, if all you want to do is go personal.

Regards
DL
Ah, name-calling.  You really do have nothing other than your own overweening sense of self-importance.  I gave my examples and reasoning, perfectly clearly.  You just don't like that you're so easily figured out, and so easily demonstrated to be in the wrong.

And nice hypocrisy there, calling me 'stupid' (not to mention other ad hominems you've committed against multiple people on this board) and then you have the gall to accuse me of getting personal.  Care to try again?  I mean, all I've done is demonstrate your ignorance, arrogance and hypocrisy with your own words, I added nothing you didn't actually say yourself.
"My faith in the Constitution is whole, it is complete, it is total, and I am not going to sit here and be an idle spectator to the diminution, the subversion, the destruction of the Constitution." -- Barbara Jordan

SoldierofFortune

Quote from: Greatest I am on January 13, 2022, 10:10:44 AM
Why do you see our substance dualism  as a problem?

Regards
DL

It is a philosophical problem, you imbecile, not mine; and how is it yours the realm of philosophy?

Gawdzilla Sama

We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Greatest I am

Quote from: SoldierofFortune on January 14, 2022, 10:21:43 AM
It is a philosophical problem, you imbecile, not mine; and how is it yours the realm of philosophy?

Thanks for this.

Regards
DL

t.e.smith

I see nothing wrong with it as long as it is done politely. In fact we do have an obligation to spread the truth and help people leave religion.
My website: https://solarationis.com (Sola Rationis, "reason alone")

drunkenshoe

You can't inject people with some enlightenment, esp. when it is the most simple, basic one. People either feel the responsibility to understand the fundamentals of existence as much as they can as a being   part of it, or not. Under normal circumstances, that is an instinct. I exclude people under oppression/ in extreme situations.

The problem with it -and a mass scale one- in a nutshell that they think they're required to be convinced personally with their fairy tale self importance-worth -in a clueless way- and it is somebody else's job; so naturally, that nonbelievers live for this notion and this arrives to the point of having nonbelief constitutes an agenda. This is the dynamic of a religion.




"I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are good people and bad people. You're wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides." Havelock Vetinari

Greatest I am

Quote from: t.e.smith on April 20, 2022, 09:21:09 PMI see nothing wrong with it as long as it is done politely. In fact we do have an obligation to spread the truth and help people leave religion.


I do not think the religious care about the truth.

They definitely do not like the moral truth that says that their genocidal god is evil.

How do you even begin to convert a person who things a genocidal character is somehow a good character?

I try to and get shit on all the time.

Have you ever converted someone?

After many attempts, I only have a few successes.

Regards
DL

SGOS

I never converted anyone.  Granted, I don't try that hard, and when I attack religious nuttery, it's only about the irrational thinking.  After that, I don't really care.  All I want is for them to stay out of my hair.  So far government protects my right to freedom from religion.  Not perfectly, and there is a looming threat, but for now, I feel safe to believe only what reality tells me, and nothing else, unless a new superhero movie from Marvel comes to the theater. Then I engage my fantasies for an hour or two.

Gawdzilla Sama

I found that just by listening to people, such as my hillbilly cousins, I can discover whether they can be enlightened. I used to give out copies of Evolution for Total Idiots. Some of them had relatives find these books. I was ready for that and told the recipients to say "Who else but total idiots believe this shit?" The questioners never bothered opening the book, I think they were afraid of contamination or in danger of not getting their Heaven Ticket punched.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers