And the Democrats respond on Rape

[Shiranu]

On the women shouldn't put themselves in a bad situation; I agree, but neither should men.

That said, we are talking about female rape, so I don't see a need to say, "Women AND men..."... If we were talking about men getting mugged people would say, "Well, he could have avoided going to the shaddy part of town!", and no one would cry about blaming the victim or its sexist to only say men and that women can put themselves in bad situations as well.

[Plu]

Actually, men get raped as well. You just never hear about it. Social problem. Like rape itself.

Also, when you advice women to be extra careful and not men, you make it easier and easier for people to say "Well, she was asking for it. They did specifically say women shouldn't do that". If an area is safe for a single male, but not for a single female, there is something seriously fucked up going on that needs to be fixed.

[Shiranu]

I know men get raped, the point was we are talking about women being raped.

And considering women are "easy targets" (I know women who could kick most guys asses) to criminals along with the fact women are raped far more often then males, I would say dangerous areas ARE more dangerous for women than men.

[AllPurposeAtheist]

Reading this makes me weep for the US. I don't know of anyone ever who carries anything here, even when a single female out at night. Either you guys have a culture built around fear, or your crime numbers are off the charts.

(But I think it's the former)

I think it's actually the politicians stoking fear in order to make themselves appear more useful.  It's hard to look like you're "solving a problem" unless there are problems around.

And if they're not around, then it's hard to appear useful, or so our politicians seem to think.

Politicians profit from 'tough on crime' so there's always a need to make the crime rate out to be worse than it really is without any proof. The stats usually dont bear the claims, but it's partially how they get elected, scare the hell out of people with real AND perceived threats and if there are none then they create them with new and "improved" laws and then make the claim to make life 'safer'  for us all. Nearly all politicians of all stripes do this. Republicans are the worse offenders..

[Jack89]

What I'm getting from Joe Salazar in this video is that he feels that young women are too stupid, ignorant, or emotionally unstable to make decisions regarding their own welfare.  He implies that they are unable to make good judgement calls and will shoot at anything that moves if they have a gun.  

Aside from being offensive, it's just not true.

I live in Arizona, where just about anyone 21 or older, who can pass a simple background check, can go down to a gun store and walk out with a handgun in less than 30 minutes.  Anyone who can own a handgun can legally carry it concealed most places, without a permit.

I know many young women who have done just that.  I can't recall hearing of any who accidentally shot someone because they mistakenly thought they were going to be assaulted.  I'm sure if I looked hard enough I might find one or two in the state, but it's certainly not a common occurrence.

Now, I think it's reasonable to assume that these same women won't lose their senses if they step on to a college campus.  I think it's also reasonable to assume that many young women are already carrying concealed on campus, despite the law, and have not become frantic, helpless young women.

[Shiranu]

Legal or not, I simply can't agree with guns at schools and campuses. Call me bigotted towards guns all you want...

[BarkAtTheMoon]

So this story took a turn to the surreal.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/20/justice/c ... ?hpt=hp_t2

A Colorado school has caused a stir with an advisory that suggested women could urinate or vomit to deter a rape.

The list of 10 tips by the University of Colorado at Colorado Springs was billed as "last resort" options to deter a sexual assault.

"Tell your attacker that you have a disease or are menstruating," read one tip.

"Vomiting or urinating may also convince the attacker to leave you alone," read another.

By Tuesday night, the list was taken down and replaced by an explanation and an apology. But it was too late.

The backlash had hit the Internet, and a hashtag on Twitter was created.

Conservative blogger Michelle Malkin was one of many who criticized the eyebrow-raising list using the hashtag #UCCSTips.

"New #UCCSTips for women: If vomiting or urinating doesn't deter your attacker, try passing gas," Malkin tweeted.

"#UCCSTips or if all else fails, ask attacker to pull your finger!" Jason Griggs tweeted.

Some women on the Colorado campus said they were confused by the list.

"Tell your attacker you have a disease or menstruating? I don't understand how that will keep someone from attacking you," student Leah McFann told CNN affiliate KRDO.

Some on campus also wondered why the list did not emphasize more conventional ways of fighting back.

Tom Hutton, a spokesman for the university, said the list had been taken out of context.

"It was part of supplemental information intended for women who had completed a self-defense class on campus," Hutton told KRDO.

Hutton said the list was created in 2006 but may have resurfaced because the issue of rape on campus had been in the news recently in Colorado.

Last week, Colorado lawmakers debated legislation that would ban firearms in college campus buildings. The debate made headlines after Democratic State Rep. Joe Salazar made controversial statements about ways to protect women on campuses.

"Because you just don't know who you are going to be shooting at," Salazar said last week. "If you feel like you're going to be raped or if you feel like someone's been following you around or if you feel like you're in trouble and when you may actually not be -- that you pop out that gun and you pop-pop a round at somebody. And you might have just made a mistake."

Salazar later apologized for the comment

[Plu]

Wow, that's... pretty stupid.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Politicians profit from 'tough on crime' so there's always a need to make the crime rate out to be worse than it really is without any proof. The stats usually dont bear the claims, but it's partially how they get elected, scare the hell out of people with real AND perceived threats and if there are none then they create them with new and "improved" laws and then make the claim to make life 'safer'  for us all. Nearly all politicians of all stripes do this. Republicans are the worse offenders..

I agree with the most of your post, but I'd like to see support for the final claim you lay before I agree with it.

[Alaric I]

I think it's actually the politicians stoking fear in order to make themselves appear more useful.  It's hard to look like you're "solving a problem" unless there are problems around.

And if they're not around, then it's hard to appear useful, or so our politicians seem to think.

Politicians profit from 'tough on crime' so there's always a need to make the crime rate out to be worse than it really is without any proof. The stats usually dont bear the claims, but it's partially how they get elected, scare the hell out of people with real AND perceived threats and if there are none then they create them with new and "improved" laws and then make the claim to make life 'safer'  for us all. Nearly all politicians of all stripes do this. Republicans are the worse offenders..

Now that's kind a blanket absolute statement isn't it?  Most of the legislation I have seen lately has been stoking fear on the Democratic side of the government.

[FlatEarth1024]

Actually, Fantasyland does exist. There are no places and times where I live where I'd not advice a lone female to go, unless I'd advice nobody to go there. This whole "the woman is weak and everyone is out to rape her" culture doesn't exist here. There are safe places and dangerous places, but there aren't any places that are only dangerous for women.

That's the whole problem with this claim. Everyone should be aware of their surroundings and not go to dangerous places alone, but it's ridiculous to claim that the requirement of being safe and walking around with another applies only to women.

And if it does, that doesn't mean that places that have it better are "fantasyland", it means you're living in "shitholeland".

No.  I'm living in realityland.  Do you know why lions target weak and sick antelope?  Because large, healthy antelope can gut a lion with one swipe of his horns.  It's a simple case of physics and leverage.  I'm a grown man and a damn fine pugilist.  A guy who wants to jump me is going to have a fight on his hands.  That doesn't mean he won't jump me, but its probably more investment than he wants to make.  A woman who stands 5-2 and weighs 110 pounds is a much more inviting target, if for no other reason than he thinks he can overpower her much more easily and control the situation without risking harm to himself or drawing a crowd of witnesses.  

The world is a MUCH more dangerous place for women than it is for men.  If you don't believe that, you are either too young to know better or a damn fool.  Spending a week reading the paper or watching the evening news should relieve you of that naive notion.

[SGOS]

So this story took a turn to the surreal.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/20/justice/c ... ?hpt=hp_t2

A Colorado school has caused a stir with an advisory that suggested women could urinate or vomit to deter a rape.

The list of 10 tips by the University of Colorado at Colorado Springs was billed as "last resort" options to deter a sexual assault.

"Tell your attacker that you have a disease or are menstruating," read one tip.

"Vomiting or urinating may also convince the attacker to leave you alone," read another.

By Tuesday night, the list was taken down and replaced by an explanation and an apology. But it was too late.

The backlash had hit the Internet, and a hashtag on Twitter was created.

Conservative blogger Michelle Malkin was one of many who criticized the eyebrow-raising list using the hashtag #UCCSTips.

"New #UCCSTips for women: If vomiting or urinating doesn't deter your attacker, try passing gas," Malkin tweeted.

"#UCCSTips or if all else fails, ask attacker to pull your finger!" Jason Griggs tweeted.

Some women on the Colorado campus said they were confused by the list.

"Tell your attacker you have a disease or menstruating? I don't understand how that will keep someone from attacking you," student Leah McFann told CNN affiliate KRDO.

Some on campus also wondered why the list did not emphasize more conventional ways of fighting back.

Tom Hutton, a spokesman for the university, said the list had been taken out of context.

"It was part of supplemental information intended for women who had completed a self-defense class on campus," Hutton told KRDO.

Hutton said the list was created in 2006 but may have resurfaced because the issue of rape on campus had been in the news recently in Colorado.

Oddly, when I worked at a university in the early 1970s, one of those special speakers that follows the college circuits came through and filled an auditorium with a one night presentation on rape prevention.  He didn't rule out anything, including kicking the attacker in the nuts, but most of his presentation revolved around the things in the list above, or variations of them.  He was a dynamic speaker and got a lot of applause for that.  My boss, a woman, was not greatly impressed, mostly because he had a ego about the size of the moon.

I wasn't sure what to think.  Do those things in the list have a proven track record?  I'm not saying they don't, but I haven't seen any actual data on this.

[Alaric I]

So this story took a turn to the surreal.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/20/justice/c ... ?hpt=hp_t2

A Colorado school has caused a stir with an advisory that suggested women could urinate or vomit to deter a rape.

The list of 10 tips by the University of Colorado at Colorado Springs was billed as "last resort" options to deter a sexual assault.

"Tell your attacker that you have a disease or are menstruating," read one tip.

"Vomiting or urinating may also convince the attacker to leave you alone," read another.

By Tuesday night, the list was taken down and replaced by an explanation and an apology. But it was too late.

The backlash had hit the Internet, and a hashtag on Twitter was created.

Conservative blogger Michelle Malkin was one of many who criticized the eyebrow-raising list using the hashtag #UCCSTips.

"New #UCCSTips for women: If vomiting or urinating doesn't deter your attacker, try passing gas," Malkin tweeted.

"#UCCSTips or if all else fails, ask attacker to pull your finger!" Jason Griggs tweeted.

Some women on the Colorado campus said they were confused by the list.

"Tell your attacker you have a disease or menstruating? I don't understand how that will keep someone from attacking you," student Leah McFann told CNN affiliate KRDO.

Some on campus also wondered why the list did not emphasize more conventional ways of fighting back.

Tom Hutton, a spokesman for the university, said the list had been taken out of context.

"It was part of supplemental information intended for women who had completed a self-defense class on campus," Hutton told KRDO.

Hutton said the list was created in 2006 but may have resurfaced because the issue of rape on campus had been in the news recently in Colorado.

Oddly, when I worked at a university in the early 1970s, one of those special speakers that follows the college circuits came through and filled an auditorium with a one night presentation on rape prevention.  He didn't rule out anything, including kicking the attacker in the nuts, but most of his presentation revolved around the things in the list above, or variations of them.  He was a dynamic speaker and got a lot of applause for that.  My boss, a woman, was not greatly impressed, mostly because he had a ego about the size of the moon.

I wasn't sure what to think.  Do those things in the list have a proven track record?  I'm not saying they don't, but I haven't seen any actual data on this.

I don't know about that, but i have heard rapists claim women with short hair and carrying long umbrellas are less atractive to them.  Apparently the like long hair as they can easily grab it, and things like canes and umbrellas can be used as long distance weapons.  Not 100% sure about how true that is though.

[Plu]

No. I'm living in realityland. Do you know why lions target weak and sick antelope? Because large, healthy antelope can gut a lion with one swipe of his horns. It's a simple case of physics and leverage. I'm a grown man and a damn fine pugilist. A guy who wants to jump me is going to have a fight on his hands. That doesn't mean he won't jump me, but its probably more investment than he wants to make. A woman who stands 5-2 and weighs 110 pounds is a much more inviting target, if for no other reason than he thinks he can overpower her much more easily and control the situation without risking harm to himself or drawing a crowd of witnesses.

The world is a MUCH more dangerous place for women than it is for men. If you don't believe that, you are either too young to know better or a damn fool. Spending a week reading the paper or watching the evening news should relieve you of that naive notion.

That's because those women are taught that they are weak and are buying it. I know a number of women who are 5'2" and 110 pounds who can kick my ass with ease, even though I'm a 6' 200 pound man. People who are weak shouldn't go out alone. Women aren't neccesarily weak, though. They're just taught to be weak by society because they say "don't go there" instead of "kick his ass if he tries anything".

And because if two young kids get in a fight, you're already assuming that both are males, because "girls don't do that kind of thing". Well no shit they grow up to be weak and in need of protection if you don't teach them to be strong.

But of course women should be delicate and small and need big, strong men to protect them. That kind of fucked up attitude is why women are afraid to go out alone. And it's bull, and everyone is feeding into it, and as long as they do, it'll stay.

[Jason78]

And now you're joining in the silliness, pretending that "feeling threatened" is the same as "about to be raped", which is exactly what the man in the story was trying to point out wasn't the case.

I'm pretty sure that the feeling like you are going to raped is feeling threatened.

I wouldn't want to get shot because a woman felt threatened by me.