Started by Vulcan, March 15, 2021, 09:31:19 PM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on March 19, 2021, 10:51:30 AMIf you are able to offer or entertain this idea, you are a white, heterosexual male.
Quote from: Mike Cl on March 18, 2021, 07:58:58 PM[quote author=Vulcan link=topic=14234.msg1298606#msg1298606 date=1616109288What I'm arguing is, like math, morality isn't a matter of opinion. You can get it wrong. Not that it has some kind of supernatural existence or anything.Interesting discussion. I must disagree--morality and ethics are a matter of opinion within whatever society one is discussing. There is no objective morality. The correct or moral way to act within any society is determined by what is accepted by most. There is no 'higher authority' to help us determine what morality is. That is why I think the best govt. is a constitutional republic. The problem with that is that while the laws and rules of conduct are spelled out, they must be enforced and enforced equally on all members of a society.
Quote from: GSOgymrat on March 18, 2021, 10:50:58 PMThe following is what I posted in another thread:I don't subscribe to moral relativism-- one can see in shades of gray without denying black and white exist. Morals were not handed down by a higher being, they evolved up biologically and socially.
Quote from: Vulcan on March 20, 2021, 08:30:12 PMI am not ONE of these. I'll leave it to you to figure out which one. (Since you're the expert).
QuoteAre you saying only white people care about moral realism?
QuoteYou are politicizing something that isn't inherently political. Reading what you wrote as charatibly as I can, I think your concern may be that a culture or system may use "objective morals" as an excuse to coerce or control people of a different culture or system.
QuoteMy personal response to that is that fundamental to my ethics is "nonviolence." And that includes "soft" forms of violence like poverty, exploitation, control, and coercion. I certainly take a page from Freire's "Pedagogy of the Oppressed" in my thinking about ethics and society. My primary moral concern is "how to do good"... NOT "how to stop bad." I'm a pacifist. I want to achieve the highest good using very little violence (or none at all, if possible). And this INCLUDES "soft" violence (poverty, coercion, or more subtle kinds of violence).
QuoteTo me, and many others, ethics is not JUST a grand societal concern. It affects how you treat people in one on one relationships and exists independently of any present societal structure or social force. Sure, moral thinking comes into play at a societal level, but "the rubber hits the road" so to speak in plain ol' interpersonal relationships. I'm trying to make arguments geared at those who want to "do the most good with their lives" NOT people who want to control the actions of others.
QuoteYou presume WAY too much about me. You think I have ideas about civil liberties when I haven't explained ANYTHING about my position concerning civil liberties.
QuoteI AM aware that men and boys were sold into sexual servitude in ancient times. I even thought about mentioning it, but I didn't because I was keeping the subject matter concise. And (on the whole, under the Roman paterfamilias cultural paradigm) the exploitation of women was far more systemic than that of men or boys. Though each is equally deplorable. ... I didn't read your Rush Limbaugh post. Sorry. Whatever you thought was a reference to it (as it turns out) wasn't about you. ...
QuoteWhat is it with you and efficiency? Do you need to go back through the thread and see why I brought the word up? Somebody asked for clarification. I said I WASN'T talking about efficiency. (Because a benevolent dictator is the most efficient in the conception of some.) I wonder if you are even comprehending the conversation, and you just wanted to step in and yell "racist" because you think it's a "white person's conversation or something."
QuoteBut if you want to hold to the "anyone who cares about this is obviously a straight white male" schtick, then you need to go have a conversation with ANY black/gay/female philosophy professor so they can set you straight. Even if they personally don't care (which I bet they do), they'll at least tell you that many, many, many philosophers who are not straight white males care about moral realism.