The "Reliability" Of Bible Scholars

[Baruch]

Book reviews are fine, but in the Bible's case the reviews keep coming after thousands of years. I suppose there's still room for originality.

In any case, the Bible is a very strange and confusing book. Apologists I think keep seeking a way to write that killer book that finally clarifies the Bible's "single message" and convinces everybody who reads it that yes, the Bible is indeed the word of God, and Jesus is his son and savior of all who believe. The apologist-writer can do all that while earning a nice royalty!

There are still fans of Gilgamesh ... after they deciphered the clay tablets again ;-)  Academics earn money (money is Evil) by studying clay tablets.

Star Trek Canon is gospel to those of us who saw it for the first time in the 60s.  Scifi is the modern version of Marxism.

[Cassia]

To me morality and ethics have nothing to do with some fictitious battle between good and evil or any childish incarnations. Do your best not to cause harm to others and yourself; in fact help others if possible. All 'mentally-well' social animals inherently know this. It is through cooperation that homo sapiens has come to dominate this planet for the time being.

[Unbeliever]

Christians write books to make money, not to save souls.

[Baruch]

Christians write books to make money, not to save souls.

Did Karl Marx give away Das Kapital?

"Karl Marx's publications sold extremely well. The Manifesto of the Communist Party, with around 500 million copies sold, is one of the four best-selling books of all time. Both the Manifesto and Das Kapital are UNESCO World Heritage documents."

[Baruch]

To me morality and ethics have nothing to do with some fictitious battle between good and evil or any childish incarnations. Do your best not to cause harm to others and yourself; in fact help others if possible. All 'mentally-well' social animals inherently know this. It is through cooperation that homo sapiens has come to dominate this planet for the time being.

Good POV.  Alas, few people are mentally well.  Humans don't dominate this planet, insects do ;-)

https://www.livescience.com/46866-planet-apes-next-dominant-species.html

[Cassia]

Good POV.  Alas, few people are mentally well.  Humans don't dominate this planet, insects do ;-)

https://www.livescience.com/46866-planet-apes-next-dominant-species.html

Yeah, that is very true by the numbers. You can say bacteria and many single celled organisms are doing well. I doubt a huge self-aware brain will enjoy a long tenure and existence. Look at what we have done to the planet in just a few thousand years !

[Baruch]

There is art and there is science.  Both are valuable, but it is important not to mix the two up, unless we are speaking of scientific discovery, or the technical aspects of art ...

"Art is the understanding that reality does not dictate the limits of your imagination.  Wisdom is the understanding that reality is not dictated by the limits of your imagination."

There is much ennui against the creativity of art, and blind faith that facts are sufficient ;-)

[trdsf]

If one believes in god and that jesus is part of the god-head, then jesus and god set this thing up.  Judas and the Jews had no choice.  This is what god scripted and this is what had to happen.  It is god's fault and no others.  But then, nobody said the mentally insane (theist) are capable of logic or critical thinking.

Pretty much. I think I was eleven or twelve when I asked our parish priest why Judas should be condemned for doing what god wanted him to do, since without the crucifixion there would be no reason for Christianity.  He more or less fell back on "it's a mystery" and I was terribly disappointedâ€"especially since he really was a great guy and I had immense respect and affection (no, not that kind) for him.  He later went on to head the diocesan office of ecumenical outreach; while he was in our parish, he often did joint services with other ministers.

Boy, you have never seen spines straighten like a bunch of old Polish and Slovak Catholics being hit with their first Baptist homily... Father Willman spoke.  Reverend Tisdale preached.

[Jagella]

To me morality and ethics have nothing to do with some fictitious battle between good and evil or any childish incarnations. Do your best not to cause harm to others and yourself; in fact help others if possible. All 'mentally-well' social animals inherently know this. It is through cooperation that homo sapiens has come to dominate this planet for the time being.

Apologists evidently cannot figure out this simple logic. Earlier today, for example, I heard an apologist raising a fuss over rational morality. He asked what's to keep us from eating our neighbors without God to command us not to!

Hmmm. Do some apologists need their religion to overcome their hunger for "neighbor stew" and assume we all have the same urge?

[Baruch]

Apologists evidently cannot figure out this simple logic. Earlier today, for example, I heard an apologist raising a fuss over rational morality. He asked what's to keep us from eating our neighbors without God to command us not to!

Hmmm. Do some apologists need their religion to overcome their hunger for "neighbor stew" and assume we all have the same urge?

Any system agreed to by a community will do, whether an outsider likes it or not.  Claiming divine sanction is simply doubling down.  Such a system doesn't have to be consistent either (given that people aren't internally consistent or socially consistent).  Justifying such a system can be the mythical "social contract".  But it doesn't actually need any justification.  Given Mongols, Aztecs etc .. I don't see much evidence for any universal morality.  Except from the bourgeois cultural imperialism.

[Jagella]

Any system agreed to by a community will do, whether an outsider likes it or not.  Claiming divine sanction is simply doubling down.  Such a system doesn't have to be consistent either (given that people aren't internally consistent or socially consistent).  Justifying such a system can be the mythical "social contract".  But it doesn't actually need any justification.  Given Mongols, Aztecs etc .. I don't see much evidence for any universal morality.  Except from the bourgeois cultural imperialism.

I've found that moral systems are often the result of whoever has the power to impose their will on others. If Big Momma can beat up any of us, for example, and Big Momma tells us we can have no candy, then we darned well better not be caught with candy! It doesn't matter how logically or factually we can argue that we can have candy, what Big Momma says goes.

The Bible god is like Big Momma. If he rules out gathering sticks on Saturday, no matter how stupid we might think that rule is, we better not get caught gathering sticks on Saturday. His might is right.

Some apologists will deny my argument. They argue that God's goodness "flows from his being--his very essence is good," whatever that might mean. Since he is good, he can only do good and command good. (So much for omnipotence!) Anyway, I must wonder how apologists judge God to be good. What standard of goodness are they referring to? If that standard of goodness is God, then to say "God is good" reduces to the tautology, "God is like God." If that standard of goodness is independent of God, then we don't need God to decide what is right and wrong, and we can gather sticks any time we think we need them.

[Baruch]

Yes, power flows from a gun - Mao Tse Tung.  Power structures do distort whatever morality would be coexistent with a particular culture.  Hence organized crime tends not to be punished, particularly the greatest organized crime, government.  What is a puritan to do?  Get uploaded into an android body to escape the stain of mere humanity?

[Unbeliever]

The entire book of Job can be summed up with 3 words: Might makes right.

[Baruch]

The entire book of Job can be summed up with 3 words: Might makes right.

With G-d, there is no alternative.  With atheism, government is god.

[trdsf]

The entire book of Job can be summed up with 3 words: Might makes right.

Or, "Fuck you, Job."