The "Reliability" Of Bible Scholars

[Mike Cl]

I never understood this especially when I would hear the complaint that the Jews were responsible for the death of Jesus. I mean really... isn't that how we all get saved? We should celebrate the Jews for turning Jesus over to be sacrificed.

If one believes in god and that jesus is part of the god-head, then jesus and god set this thing up.  Judas and the Jews had no choice.  This is what god scripted and this is what had to happen.  It is god's fault and no others.  But then, nobody said the mentally insane (theist) are capable of logic or critical thinking.

[Baruch]

If one believes in god and that jesus is part of the god-head, then jesus and god set this thing up.  Judas and the Jews had no choice.  This is what god scripted and this is what had to happen.  It is god's fault and no others.  But then, nobody said the mentally insane (theist) are capable of logic or critical thinking.

The Christian point is guilt, a rather Jewish thing.  If there is guilt, and no way to relieve this (in this life anyway) then neurosis results.  Atonement is getting divine forgiveness from the one source that can do so (for sin, as you describe).  Wronging another human isn't like that ... if the victim or family is still alive.  Then recompense is required.  Recompense was an improvement over vendetta.  But Christians often get this wrong, that recompense isn't required, given divine forgiveness.  They treat every wrong as divine ;-( ... G-d made me do it, instead of the devil made me do it ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NASl_Qy2sc


If there is no guilt (regardless if there is sin or not), then either one is faultless, or sociopathic.  I struggle with this, not with sin.  What I am guilty of (G-d isn't responsible for my own guilt, but of things beyond my control).  Aren't you describing a convenient determinism, a god-mechanical universe without free will?  If G-d didn't make you do it, and the Devil didn't make you did it, your Nature made you do it (so you are innocent like any 3 year old).

[Cassia]

If I read or hear the word 'sin' in a serious sentence, I  disregard whatever nonsense follows. It is however great for comedy. The forgiveness brokers (clergy) really crack me up.

[Baruch]

If I read or hear the word 'sin' in a serious sentence, I  disregard whatever nonsense follows. It is however great for comedy. The forgiveness brokers (clergy) really crack me up.

Is sin separate from guilt for you?  If so, you can tell your right hand from your left ;-)  In the context of Protestant criticism of Catholicism, the Mass is a magic routine (and thus a travesty) that the Church acts as a gateway for.

[Mike Cl]

Is sin separate from guilt for you?  If so, you can tell your right hand from your left ;-)  In the context of Protestant criticism of Catholicism, the Mass is a magic routine (and thus a travesty) that the Church acts as a gateway for.

'Sin' is a nonsensical word made up by the religious (mentally insane) leaders; it, according to them, is a condition all of us are in and only they can lead you to overcome it.  That includes your G-d, which is a nonsensical word as well.  Guilt is a true human emotion/feeling, and it comes in good and bad types.  All religion, including yours, is a magic routine, and thus a travesty.  It is all a fiction.

[aitm]

The babble also says, though many are hush hush about it, that the return of Jebus is so soon that if you are married you should act as if you are not. Not surprisingly the idea of giving up a fuck for jesus quickly went by the way.

[Jagella]

Correct, it was thought in Catholic and Orthodox circles, that it was a sin for laity to read the Bible.

Nowadays Catholics are allowed to read the Bible--along with the "help" of the Catholic church. Come to think of it, though, Protestants "help" their congregants to read the Bible too. These Christian sects just don't seem to trust people to read the Bible on their own and come to their own conclusions.

[Jagella]

I never understood this especially when I would hear the complaint that the Jews were responsible for the death of Jesus. I mean really... isn't that how we all get saved? We should celebrate the Jews for turning Jesus over to be sacrificed.

I think what happened is that some confusion resulted from the stories that Christians were making up at that time. Some Christians saw the crucifixion of Christ as evil, and others saw it as good. Those opposing views were never completely reconciled. The result is that Satan along with "the Jews" have been blamed and persecuted for a deed that has led to Christian salvation!

The entire idea of vicarious redemption is immoral and idiotic anyways. The transfer of responsibility for wrong-doing isn't even allowed in our civil judicial system, yet here it is, the basis of the largest religion. Yeah, I stole a car, sorry. My grandma here is gonna do my prison stint, OK your Honor?

The belief in Christ's "dying for our sins" is a great way to lay a guilt trip on people. After all, who could reject a man who died so that we need not be punished? How ungrateful to do so!

Apologists have a lot of material to defend.

I'm currently reading Douglas Groothuis Christian Apologetics: A Comprehensive Case for Biblical Faith. It's 752 pages long. I'm wondering why Groothuis spends so much time writing a big book telling us why the claims of the New Testament are true. Can't the New Testament demonstrate the truth of its claims?

[Baruch]

'Sin' is a nonsensical word made up by the religious (mentally insane) leaders; it, according to them, is a condition all of us are in and only they can lead you to overcome it.  That includes your G-d, which is a nonsensical word as well.  Guilt is a true human emotion/feeling, and it comes in good and bad types.  All religion, including yours, is a magic routine, and thus a travesty.  It is all a fiction.

Thanks you, inventor of Newspeak ;-)  You are the ultimate grammar Nazi?  I suppose you hate Star Trek and Star Wars fans too?

Are you guilty of anything?  Or does your version of natural law preclude any guilt?

[Baruch]

Nowadays Catholics are allowed to read the Bible--along with the "help" of the Catholic church. Come to think of it, though, Protestants "help" their congregants to read the Bible too. These Christian sects just don't seem to trust people to read the Bible on their own and come to their own conclusions.

Freethinkers are the enemies of all human order.  As they should be ;-)

It is funny when literary criticism is much larger than the literature it is analyzing ;-))  Maybe critics/apologists like the sound of their own keyboards?

[Mike Cl]

Thanks you, inventor of Newspeak ;-)  You are the ultimate grammar Nazi?  I suppose you hate Star Trek and Star Wars fans too?

Are you guilty of anything?  Or does your version of natural law preclude any guilt?

For you, English means nothing.  All you have is snark and putdowns--substance or thinking not allowed in your world.  And, yes, I am guilty of reading too much of your trash!  And trash is all you produce.

[Sal1981]

Are you guilty of anything?  Or does your version of natural law preclude any guilt?

"Guilty" and "sin" are two very different concepts.

[Baruch]

"Guilty" and "sin" are two very different concepts.

Correct, my exact point.  But banning words is ... cringe, provided one uses practical definitions of them.  One of my points is that Christians et al commonly have little understanding of this difference.  For evangelical Protestants, the Mass isn't the magic, it is having "Jesus In Your Heart".  Jews think that merely following ritual exactly is righteous (Jesus knocks this very point).  And Muslims think that jihad is virtuous.

Are you guilty of anything?  I am not asking about sin ... and my questions are rhetorical.  Otherwise TMI.

Speaking of hating fandoms ... the SWJ versions of Star Trek (Picard) and Star Wars (third part of trilogy) were all written by people who openly admit they hate Star Trek and Star Wars fans.  They must have attended that "15 minute hate" with Big Brother in the original Macintosh commercial.

[Baruch]

For you, English means nothing.  All you have is snark and putdowns--substance or thinking not allowed in your world.  And, yes, I am guilty of reading too much of your trash!  And trash is all you produce.

Do you know that senior anger is a known symptom of aging?  My Ex's second husband had it.  My very old mother had it.  Surely you can put some F bombs in your posts? (rhetorical) to make the ad hominem more memorable.  We almost entirely agree on Biblical scholarship, but that doesn't seem to be enough for you.

[Jagella]

Maybe critics/apologists like the sound of their own keyboards?

Book reviews are fine, but in the Bible's case the reviews keep coming after thousands of years. I suppose there's still room for originality.

In any case, the Bible is a very strange and confusing book. Apologists I think keep seeking a way to write that killer book that finally clarifies the Bible's "single message" and convinces everybody who reads it that yes, the Bible is indeed the word of God, and Jesus is his son and savior of all who believe. The apologist-writer can do all that while earning a nice royalty!