A new perspective on this thing that we know as God.

Started by od19g6, December 31, 2019, 05:13:18 PM

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od19g6

#195
Quote from: Mike Cl on January 07, 2020, 04:34:17 PM
Yeah, I know you are baha'i--caught that early on.  Yes, I agree with you in this last paragraph.  I understand that when humans include all cultures, colors and beliefs/thinking, then there will be peace.  But I don't need a fictional god to point that out.
If you want to know, the job of the Prophets / Messengers / Manifestations is to simply teach and let the human being know what they truly are, a spiritual beings.
And Baha'u'llah is the latest of these.

We will always have a choice to ether take it or leave it.

od19g6

Quote from: Mr.Obvious on January 07, 2020, 06:36:50 PM
The real question is, can god do something it, at any one point, doesn't want to? Can god change his mind/will and utilize his omnipotence accordingly? Is god free to make a choice  if he knows already everything that will be? If he can't does that not mean he is actually not omnipotent? And if he can, then technically his will can be disrupted.

And if, indeed, nothing can disrupt god's will, as I agree would be the case if he's the omnipotent, omniscient creator of everything... Then does he not have a lot of crap to answer for? From distrust to deformation to disease. From parasites and perverts to scammers and stupidly pointless conversations?

We can not hurt god. We can not ask god to do anything he didn't always already want to do.
But god apparently can and does hurt us by deliberatly choosing to create a less than optimum world and design us in such a way that we, 100% according to his will and his bidding, suffer unfairly and treat one-another like crap.
You know, I kind of feel that you're trying to make all this in a way that says God is imperfect and that God has human qualities.

You all ways have to remember God is beyond the physical reality and like I mentioned earlier He's even beyond human terms like all-knowing, all-powerful etc. Those terms are correct only because we have no other way to express what this thing that is known as God is besides what we say in human words.

The human being is the greatest ambassador of God.
That's why the mystical thing is that whatever you want to know about God you have to know about the human being.

Mike Cl

Quote from: od19g6 on January 07, 2020, 06:39:13 PM
If you want to know, the job of the Prophets / Messengers / Manifestations is to simply teach and let the human being know what they truly are, a spiritual beings.

We will always have a choice to ether take it or leave it.
Your prophets, messengers and manifestations are what honest people call 'snake-oil salesmen'--they are flim-flam men selling their fiction to the world--and apparently you are a buyer.  I'm not.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

Mr.Obvious

Quote from: od19g6 on January 07, 2020, 06:58:42 PM
You know, I kind of feel that you're trying to make all this in a way that says God is imperfect and that God has human qualities.

You all ways have to remember God is beyond the physical reality and like I mentioned earlier He's even beyond human terms like all-knowing, all-powerful etc. Those terms are correct only because we have no other way to express what this thing that is known as God is besides what we say in human words.

The human being is the greatest ambassador of God.
That's why the mystical thing is that whatever you want to know about God you have to know about the human being.

Close, but not really. I'm trying to point out that it seems to me that 'the idea of what a god would be', tends to be intrinsicly impossible due to the assigned attributes being impossible to blend with one-another, let alone the whole of said attributes with the reality we experience around us.

But aside from that, do you not pick up on the blatant error in your own further assertions regarding the status of physical humans being the best proof of a metaphysical being? I mean, let alone the fact that you say that we can't even express what the hell this eternal ancient omnicreator would be... Let alone the fact that you admit that, if this supposed deity were to exist, any discription and comprehension that we might have of it would fall short.  Let alone the fact that this pityfull human form, infinitely less godly than the supposed god would be,  is the best way to understand god. Let all those points be, I don't even need them. Let's let the faulty logic slide for a second.
Let's for one second go with the idea that indeed revelations and prophets and humans as a whole are the best ambassador we could have... How could you even then claim we could even approximately come to understand god's will? That's ridiculous. If this god is indeed so far beyond our own way, you have no idea of what might be his will. Of what might be important to this being, so far beyond our comprehension? If you assume a being with infinite-knowledge or even with knowledge 'beyond the human concept of infinity', any finite experience or piece of evidence or whatever limited bullshit will always by default be insufficient to determien that being's will. I mean honestly, god could be a giant beetle-creature that created beetles and cockroaches in it's likeness and without a sense of morality, that simply planned for us to be there to provide food and feces for it's treasured, most perfect creations. Any prophet could be a ploy to test us, hoping for us to reject their teachings... With limited knowledge your guess would be as good as ours. You can't simultanously claim that we can't understand god and then that we can understand him well enough.

Rant over, sleep time.
"If we have to go down, we go down together!"
- Your mum, last night, requesting 69.

Atheist Mantis does not pray.

Baruch

#199
Quote from Peter O'Toole

Quote from: Unbeliever on January 07, 2020, 04:58:15 PM
When did I realize I was God? Well, I was praying and I suddenly realized I was talking to myself.

True, but I also talk to you ... and Peter O'Toole was the real Lawrence of Arabia too ...
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

Quote from: Mike Cl on January 07, 2020, 06:15:25 PM
Look up some of the huge civilizations ants have and are, creating.

Like bees, all run by horrible feminists ;-)
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

#201
Quote from: Sal1981 on January 07, 2020, 06:32:25 PM
Where do you think the inspiration for aircraft wings came from? From observing birds.

Where do you think the inspiration for optics came from? Animal eyes.

More than just that.  Did Leonardo create Boeing?  Don't know any airplanes covered in feathers.  It was also aerodynamics, which came from maths and wind tunnels.

Optics was perfected by observing and dissecting humans.  Humans are animals.  QED.  See Ibn al-Haytham.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Jason Harvestdancer

White privilege is being a lifelong racist, then being sent to the White House twice because your running mate is a minority.<br /><br />No Biden, no KKK, no Fascist USA!

Baruch

Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on January 07, 2020, 09:23:49 PM
Humans ARE animals.

Optimist or pessimist, I can't tell.  But there are a lot of squid people on the Internet.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

trdsf

Quote from: od19g6 on January 07, 2020, 04:03:35 PM
But as you know, we have to put our words into action, don't we.
That's a meaningless statement, and dodges the problem of mutually exclusive items in your list, as well as failing to provide evidence.
"My faith in the Constitution is whole, it is complete, it is total, and I am not going to sit here and be an idle spectator to the diminution, the subversion, the destruction of the Constitution." -- Barbara Jordan

trdsf

Quote from: od19g6 on January 07, 2020, 03:06:16 PM
But the grand point is that: animals can "never" teach humans while humans "always" teaches animals.
This is not strictly correct; we learn a great deal by studying animals.

If you want to take the position that 'teach' means actively imparting information, my cat has several noises and behaviors to tell me her needs. I didn't teach them to her; I had to learn from her, her ways to communicate.
"My faith in the Constitution is whole, it is complete, it is total, and I am not going to sit here and be an idle spectator to the diminution, the subversion, the destruction of the Constitution." -- Barbara Jordan

Sal1981

All of this is pointless drivel anyways, that only operates within the confines of imagined importance.

What evidence do you have of any of this, @OP?


od19g6

Quote from: Sal1981 on January 08, 2020, 11:54:32 AM
All of this is pointless drivel anyways, that only operates within the confines of imagined importance.

What evidence do you have of any of this, @OP?
Evidence of what?

Baruch

Quote from: od19g6 on January 08, 2020, 03:28:56 PM
Yes, physical but not spiritually.

Ancient Egyptians would disagree ;-)

"let the human being know what they truly are, a spiritual beings" ... correct, but atheists have no soul.  Materialists don't believe in anything they can't see ... except for political ideology.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.