A new perspective on this thing that we know as God.

Started by od19g6, December 31, 2019, 05:13:18 PM

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Hydra009

#165
Quote from: trdsf on January 05, 2020, 11:54:20 PMIf you can't tell a natural cause from a supernatural cause, you cannot use it to assert a supernatural cause exists.
Right.  And that's why anyone with an IQ above room temperature (in celsius) tends to be pretty skeptical about some random thing attributed to a god or spirit or some other supernatural being.

Not only have we collectively been through this sort of thing a million times and *spoiler alert* the supernatural explanation has always been wrong.

But also because we can never totally rule out a natural explanation.  The best case scenario for the believer is that this phenomenon is so baffling that it does not have a natural explanation ...yet.  That's a hell of a weak argument, even in the best case scenario.  And with this stunning revelation that something is unknown, the whole world is expected to fall to their knees and convert immediately.  What a bizarre, ego-driven expectation!

od19g6

Quote from: SGOS on January 05, 2020, 05:45:51 AM
I love wilderness.  I love it as much as you love your faith.  We can have that pissing match later, but I simply love it more than anything.  I don't talk about it here, because wilderness has no more to do with atheism than your faith.  So the question about why you are here puzzles me.  I don't think you are telling the whole truth.  Your love of Jesus is no more relevant than my love of wild places.  I have no desire to go to one of the many Christian sites and hawk my love of wilderness, much less the fact that I am an atheist.  No one in a Christian forum would care.  I think you are here for reasons you are not disclosing, because loving your faith is quite irrelevant.  Good for you, I guess, but I'm not interested one bit.
Well, I just want to be correct on something. I'm not a christian, I'm actually baha'i.

Plus I want say don't worry, I'm not here to try and convert anyone, matter of fact, I think it's impossible. It's up to the person if they want to investigate more. To be honest with you, I just came on here to express my perspective on this thing that is known as the God. And if you really want to know, I just was curious to hear you all reactions on my perspective. That's all.

I love animals as well. And I think they are magnificent creatures. I was just talking about them in relation to the human being. That animals doesn't have a divine nature like we have. And we can display all the names and attributes of God at the highest level to the physical world.

I want to assure you that everything that I say, I trying to be totally honest about. There is no dishonesty going on. And I'm going to say right now, if it's something that I'm ask and I'm not sure about and don't know the answer to, I have know problem with saying: I don't know.

I hope you would at least hear my views.

od19g6

#167
Quote from: Mike Cl on January 05, 2020, 08:09:45 PM
Would I like a list?  You bet ya--yep.  And I'm hanging tight.
Here you go.

Good human qualities:

Integrity
Courageousness
Honesty
Generosity
Loyalty
Perseverance
Respectfulness
Politeness
Responsibility
Kindness
Humility
Lovingness
Compassion
Optimism
Fairness
Reliability
Forgiveness
Conscientiousness
Authenticity
Self-discipline


Names and Attributes of God:

Abiding One
Adored
All-Abiding
All-Bountiful
All-Compelling
All-Glorious
All-Glorious Being
All-Glorious Lord
All-Hearing
All-Highest
All-Highest Throne
All-Informed
All-Knowing
All-Knowing Physician
All-Merciful
All-Perceiving
All-Pervading
All-Possessing
All-Powerful
All-Praised
All-Searching
All-Seeing
All-Subduing
All-Sufficing
All-Wise
Almighty
Ancient and Sovereign Lord of All
Ancient Beauty
Ancient Being
Ancient King
Ancient of Days
Ancient of Everlasting Days
Author
Bahá
Beauty
Beginning and End
Beloved
Beloved of All Things
Beloved of All Worlds
Beloved of Our Hearts
Beneficient
Benevolent
Best-Beloved
Best-Informed
Bird of Desire
Blissful
Breath
Central Orb of the Universe
Compassionate
Concealer
Concealer of Sins
Counsellor
Creator
Creator of All Names
Creator of the Earth and Heaven
Creator of the Heavens
Day Spring
Day Spring of Glory
Day Spring of the Spirit
Day Star
Day Star of Glory
Day Star of Unfading Glory
Daystar of Eternal Guidance
Deathless Beauty
Desire of All Nations
Desire of Every Understanding Heart
Desire of the World
Desired One
Divine and Infallible Physician
Divine Being
Divine Charmer
Divine Countenance
Divine Educator
Divine Essence
Divine King
Divine Ordainer
Divine Presence
Divine Spirit
Dominant
Educator
Educator of All Beings
Equitable
Essence of All Learning
Essence of Bounty
Essence of Loving Kindness
Eternal
Eternal Being
Eternal Essence
Eternal Essence of Essences
Eternal King
Eternal Lord
Eternal Truth
Ever-Abiding
Ever-Abiding God
Ever-Abiding Lord
Ever-Forgiving
Everlasting Beauty
Everlasting Candle
Everlasting King
Exalted
Exalted One
Expounder
Eye of Grandeur
Faithful
Faithful One
Faithful Spirit
Fashioner
Fashioner of All Created Things
Fashioner of the Heavens
FatherFinger of Holiness
First and Last
Forgiving
Generous One
Glorified
Glorified Countenance
Glorious
Glorious One
Glory
God
God of Mercy
Gracious
Grandeur
Great
Great Being
Great Giver
Guardian
Hand of Divine Power
Hand of Mercy
Hearts' Desire
Heaven of Generosity
Help in Peril
Highest and Last End
Him Who Causeth the Dawn to Break
Holy of Holies
Ideal King
Immortal Beauty
Immortal King
Inaccessible
Incomparable
Incomparable One
Incorruptible
Infinite Spirit
Inmost Essence
Innermost Spirit of Spirits
Invisible
Invisible Essence
Invisible of Invisibles
Invisible One
King
King of Divine Might
King of Everlasting Days
King of Existance
King of Glory
King of Incomparable Glory
King of Kings
King of Names
King of Names and Attributes
Knower
Knower of All Things
Knower of the Unseen and the Seen
Knower of Things Unseen
Knowledge
Life-Giver
Living God
Lode Star
Lord of All Beings
Lord of All Faiths
Lord of All Names
Lord of All Things
Lord of All Worlds
Lord of Bounty
Lord of Creation
Lord of Earth and Heaven
Lord of Eternity
Lord of Lords
Lord of Mankind
Lord of Men
Lord of Names
Lord of Revelation
Lord of the Day of Reckoning
Lord of the Easts and the Wests
Lord of the Exalted Throne
Lord of the Frequented Fane
Lord of the Glorious Throne
Lord of the Kingdom of Utterance
Lord of the Mighty Throne
Lord of Thy Fathers
Lord of Wealth
Lord the Most High
Loved One
Loving
Luminary
Majesty
Maker
Maker of the Heavens
Manifest
manifest and Sovereign Ruler
Merciful
Mercy
Mighty
Monarch of All Names
Most Bountiful
Most Bountiful of the Bountiful
Most Exalted
Most Exalted Being
Most Generous
Most Great
Most Great Beauty
Most Great Light
Most Great Spirit
Most High
Most Holy
Most Manifest
Most Merciful
Most Mighty King
Most Powerful
Mover
Mover of All Beings
MunificentMystic Source
Nightingale of Holiness
Object of All Adoration
Object of All Knowledge
Object of All Learning
Ocean of Everlasting Bounty
Ocean of mercy
Omnipotent
Omnipotent Avenger
Omnipotent Protector
Omniscient
One
One True God
One Who Heareth
Ordainer
Origin of All Things
Paradise
Peerless
Perspicuous
Possessor of All Created Things
Possessor of Infinite Names
Possessor of Names
Potent
Powerful
Praised
Primal Will
Promised One
Protector
Protector of the Doers of Good
Providence
Provider of All Means
Pure and Hidden One
Quickener
Quintessence of All Truth
Quintessence of Glory
Raiser from the Dead
Reckoner
Redeemer
Resplendent
Revealer
Rich
Root of Knowledge
Ruler
Ruler of All Nations
Ruler of Earth and Heaven
Ruler of the Day of Reckoning
Ruler of the Kingdom of Names
Ruler of the Universe
Sea of Seas
Seen and Hidden
Self-Subsisting
Self-Sufficient
Self-Sufficing
Slayer
Source of All Grace
Source of All Knowledge
Source of Divine Grace
Source of Divine Inspiration
Source of Eternal Light
Source of Everlasting Life
Source of Infinite Grace
Source of Power and Wisdom
Source of All Splendour
Sovereign Lord
Sovereign Lord of All
Sovereign Lord of Eternity
Sovereign Ordainer
Sovereign Protector
Sovereign Revealer
Sovereign Truth
Spirit
Subtile
Summit
Sun of Truth
Supreme Being
Supreme Ordainer
Supreme Protector
Supreme Redeemer
Supreme Singleness
Sustainer
Tabernacle of Ancient Glory
Tabernacle of Majesty and Glory
The Great Announcement
Throne of Glory
Tongue of Grandeur
Tree of Life
True One
True Physician
Truth
Ultimate Desire
Unchangeable Being
Unchangeable Countenance
Unchangeable Essence
Unconditioned
Unconstrained
Uncreated
Undying Fire
Unfailing Protector
Unifier
Unknowable
Unknowable Essence
Unrestrained
Unseen
Unseen Beauty
Unseen Treasure
Visible and Invisible
Voice
Well-Beloved
Will
Wise
Wise One

Abider
Abiding
Adored
AllBounteous
AllBountiful
AllCompelling
AllForgiving
AllGenerous
AllGlorified
AllGlorious
AllHighest
Allinformed
AllKnowing
AllLoving
AllMerciful
AllPerceiving
AllPossessing
AllPowerful
AllPreserving
AllSeeing
Allsubduing
Allsufficing
AllWise
Almighty
Ancient
Announcer
Answerer
Assister
Attractor
Author
Beauteous
Benevolent
BestBeloved
Bestower
Bestowing
Bounteous
Bountiful
Changeless
Chastiser
Clement
Compassionate
Concealer
Concealing
Confirmer
Conqueror
Creator
Dayspring
Desired
Destroyer
Dispeller
Doer
Enchanter
Enkindler
Enrapture
EverAbiding
EverBestowing
EverBounteous
EverForgiving
EverGiving
Exalted
Expounder
Fashioner
Forgiver
Forgiving
Fountainhead
Generous
Giving
Glorious
Godhead
Gracious
Grandeur
Greatest
Healer
Healing
Hearing
Highest
Inaccessible
Incomparable
Invincible
Invoked
Knower
Lightgiver
Lordship
Magnanimous
Magnificent
Maker
Master
Merciful
Mighty
Omnipotent
Omnipresent
Omniscient
Onlooker
Ordainer
Ordaining
Pardoner
Patience
Peerless
Physician
Possessor
Powerful
Preserver
Protector
Provider
Remover
Revealer
Ruler
Savior
SelfSubsistent
SelfSubsisting
Source
Sovereign
Sublime
Succorer
Succoring
Sufficer
Sufficing
Supreme
Sustainer
Transcendent
Unconditioned
Unconstrained
Unfastener
Unfettered
Unfolder
Unlocker
Unsearchable
Untrammelled
Upraiser
Uprooter
WellBeloved

All of these qualities and in different areas of life, the human being can potentially display at a high level above all other creatures.


P.s. I hope this is the complete and authentic list. But is this all I have for now. I'll double check tomorrow.

Mr.Obvious

Couldn't help but notice you jotted down all-knowing, all powerful and creator of the earth and the heavens there.

Do you believe in the power of prayer?
And do you believe that at any given time, someone can be doing something against God's will or intent?
"If we have to go down, we go down together!"
- Your mum, last night, requesting 69.

Atheist Mantis does not pray.

Mike Cl

Wow, od19,------now that is a list!!!  At least it is a long one.  And I did read it.  And you now what?  I am no closer to god now than before I read it.  Why?  Because your god, nor any god, is real.  Your god, like most others, are used by the few to control and influence the rest.  Simple. 

BTW, I did not see 'Evil' on your lists.  If your god did not create it, then why does it exist?  Why does your god allow it to exist? 

I assume you believe god created nature, right?  Have you observed nature?  Why does the spider have to torture the fly to death; eat it while it still lives?  Why do parasites infect newborns or why are unhealthy and deformed babies born daily?  What about nature do you see as perfect?  No two people are physically alike.  No two members of any species is exactly alike.  Even prior to man, species die out.  The world one day is not exactly like the world of any other day.  So, then your god is not perfect?  Anyway, nature actually reflects a system, not a creator; evolution.  Evolution does not insist upon perfection--only for the species to continue, while changing--if the changes are good, the species continues, if not, then the real possibility exists that it will die out.

To be honest, I see people like you who need to make up lists of things their god does as in need of a crutch to get through life.  The question of "Why" is too much for  them to bear, so they invent a bromide to cover that--god.  So, you need a crutch to face life--that's okay.  If you need it, use it.  But don't tell me what to think and how to act.  I know you are not in to that; so it's not really my business for me to tell you not to use your crutch.  Use it with joy!  What I resent are religious people of any religion that insists I believe as they do.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

Minimalist

Quote
Good human qualities:

Integrity
Courageousness
Honesty
Generosity
Loyalty
Perseverance
Respectfulness
Politeness
Responsibility
Kindness
Humility
Lovingness
Compassion
Optimism
Fairness
Reliability
Forgiveness
Conscientiousness
Authenticity
Self-discipline

These are in short supply!
The Christian church, in its attitude toward science, shows the mind of a more or less enlightened man of the Thirteenth Century. It no longer believes that the earth is flat, but it is still convinced that prayer can cure after medicine fails.

-- H. L. Mencken

Blackleaf

Quote from: od19g6 on January 05, 2020, 05:27:23 PM
Well the key word you just said was "taught."
You have to understand that no really impressive "human like" thing that the animal does can ever be done unless the human being is teachings them. This is another case of the human being have dominion over the animal.

Of course they're taught. All social species are taught behaviors by previous generations. That's why you can't just drop a zoo animal in the wild and expect it to survive. And once again, humans are no different in this scenario. Do you know a single person who speaks sign language who was not taught by someone else?
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville--

Unbeliever

God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

trdsf

Still nothing but words.  So you own a thesaurus, bully for you.

Not a letter of that ridiculously long (and internally contradictory) list is in any way evidence.
"My faith in the Constitution is whole, it is complete, it is total, and I am not going to sit here and be an idle spectator to the diminution, the subversion, the destruction of the Constitution." -- Barbara Jordan

od19g6

Quote from: Blackleaf on January 06, 2020, 01:04:37 PM
Of course they're taught. All social species are taught behaviors by previous generations. That's why you can't just drop a zoo animal in the wild and expect it to survive. And once again, humans are no different in this scenario. Do you know a single person who speaks sign language who was not taught by someone else?
But the grand point is that: animals can "never" teach humans while humans "always" teaches animals.

od19g6

Quote from: Mr.Obvious on January 06, 2020, 02:37:17 AM
Couldn't help but notice you jotted down all-knowing, all powerful and creator of the earth and the heavens there.

Do you believe in the power of prayer?
And do you believe that at any given time, someone can be doing something against God's will or intent?
Yes, I believe in the power of prayer.
God's will be done regardless of who is against it.


od19g6

#177
Quote from: Mike Cl on January 06, 2020, 08:59:49 AM
Wow, od19,------now that is a list!!!  At least it is a long one.  And I did read it.  And you now what?  I am no closer to god now than before I read it.  Why?  Because your god, nor any god, is real.  Your god, like most others, are used by the few to control and influence the rest.  Simple. 

BTW, I did not see 'Evil' on your lists.  If your god did not create it, then why does it exist?  Why does your god allow it to exist? 

I assume you believe god created nature, right?  Have you observed nature?  Why does the spider have to torture the fly to death; eat it while it still lives?  Why do parasites infect newborns or why are unhealthy and deformed babies born daily?  What about nature do you see as perfect?  No two people are physically alike.  No two members of any species is exactly alike.  Even prior to man, species die out.  The world one day is not exactly like the world of any other day.  So, then your god is not perfect?  Anyway, nature actually reflects a system, not a creator; evolution.  Evolution does not insist upon perfection--only for the species to continue, while changing--if the changes are good, the species continues, if not, then the real possibility exists that it will die out.

To be honest, I see people like you who need to make up lists of things their god does as in need of a crutch to get through life.  The question of "Why" is too much for  them to bear, so they invent a bromide to cover that--god.  So, you need a crutch to face life--that's okay.  If you need it, use it.  But don't tell me what to think and how to act.  I know you are not in to that; so it's not really my business for me to tell you not to use your crutch.  Use it with joy!  What I resent are religious people of any religion that insists I believe as they do.
Well, the human being can use "anything" in the world for control and influence. It's just that some human beings have bad intentions and that's why that do it. That's why the legitimate Prophets / Messengers / Manifestations always comes to the world to teach divine education so the human being can be on the right spiritual path.

Well, evil is just the absence of good. In the same way that ignorance is the absence of knowledge or darkness is absence of light etc. But that doesn't mean that people actually don't experience evil. As you know, the human being is physically an animal as well, but we have a reality that's beyond the mere animal. We have the ability to display an ultimate thing called free will/choice. No other animal has the ability to display free will/choice like the human being does. And believe in or not, that's yet another sign the the human being has dominion over all other living things. The Prophets / Messengers / Manifestations has always taught that we have to be careful not to let our animal nature take over our spiritual nature, because when that happens that's when you see all these evil things that go on in the world.

Natural in not perfect, you know why, because it's physical. It is only the divine reality that has perfections. I believe it is the animal that has most of the bad qualities that exist in the world. That have good ones as well, but not nearly as much as the human being.

You know what, I don't mind that people have a crutch. The question is do that crutch has meaning and does that "crutch" helps you to be a more positive human being in the world?

Look, I'm baha'i,
And the flagship word of the baha'i faith is "unity."
It really doesn't matter what another human being believes in, as long as we respect each other as fellow human beings and believe is or not, that's all that matters to a baha'i. It just that simple.
That why we believe in the planetary unity of the human species. When the unity of humanity is firmly established the will world peace arrive.

od19g6

Quote from: trdsf on January 07, 2020, 03:55:08 AM
Still nothing but words.  So you own a thesaurus, bully for you.

Not a letter of that ridiculously long (and internally contradictory) list is in any way evidence.
But as you know, we have to put our words into action, don't we.

Mr.Obvious

Quote from: od19g6 on January 07, 2020, 03:09:11 PM
Yes, I believe in the power of prayer.
God's will be done regardless of who is against it.

Then what's the point of said prayer?
God's will be done regardless. Right?

Also, what's the point of him creating people in such a way that, by his will, they are against his will?
Maybe it's cause i'm not allknowing, but I don't see the sense in that.

"If we have to go down, we go down together!"
- Your mum, last night, requesting 69.

Atheist Mantis does not pray.