"Reverse mortgage" an obvious scam.

[Plu]

Why do you keep talking about "influencing the stock market"? That's not the goal. It's not even going to happen. It's just a way to move people's money from their bank accounts to yours by pretending you're a stock broker.

At no point in my story do you need to know anything about stocks, or influence anything.

[SGOS]

A scam is a confidence game or other fraudulent scheme, esp. for making a quick profit; swindle. In what way is a reverse mortgage not a scam? The companies profiting from them are swindling money, or even a house by doing it. Solitary

maybe bank regulations are different in US and Canada regarding reverse mortgages but it doesn't sound like a scam. it's just using the equity in your home to get cash.

//http://www.reverseyourmortgage.ca/faq/frequently-asked-questions/

That's exactly what it is.  Other variations of the same thing are called equity lines, where you borrow money on the equity in your home.  You're just using your home as collateral.  

Some guy at the bank sits around and thinks of arrays of "creative financial instruments" which are presented as "many ways to meet your specific financial goals", but they are all based on one common theme:  The bank gives you money, you assume debt, you owe the bank with interest.  They also charge you fees to set these things up.

It's not a scam, unless they tell you it's something else, like maybe you're getting money for free.  But here's the secret: No bank gives you free money.  It wouldn't work to the bank's advantage.  They don't do it. :-D

[surly74]

Why do you keep talking about "influencing the stock market"? That's not the goal. It's not even going to happen. It's just a way to move people's money from their bank accounts to yours by pretending you're a stock broker.

At no point in my story do you need to know anything about stocks, or influence anything.

i misread.

[AllPurposeAtheist]

The situation does exist.  It has to.  There is no possibility that it won't.  You are mathematically assured to end up with a group of winners who think you gave them good advice 2, 3, or 10 times.  After you go through the process of discarding the losers, it's time to call up your schmoozing talents, and fuck them over big time.  Some are so enthralled, they might even bet the farm.

It's extremely clever, I think.

clever is too hard to pull off. it needs to be simple.

Clever is better. It's much easier to hide your true intention. When scams are simple they're to easy to catch on to which is why clever works so much better or else dumb people would do it and it wouldn't be a scam, just common practice.

[surly74]

The situation does exist.  It has to.  There is no possibility that it won't.  You are mathematically assured to end up with a group of winners who think you gave them good advice 2, 3, or 10 times.  After you go through the process of discarding the losers, it's time to call up your schmoozing talents, and fuck them over big time.  Some are so enthralled, they might even bet the farm.

It's extremely clever, I think.

clever is too hard to pull off. it needs to be simple.

Clever is better. It's much easier to hide your true intention. When scams are simple they're to easy to catch on to which is why clever works so much better or else dumb people would do it and it wouldn't be a scam, just common practice.

yeah ok. ponzi's were ridiculously simple concepts. pyramids are simple.

[AllPurposeAtheist]

Ok, you win.. Stupid is better. No argument here.. :)

[surly74]

Ok, you win.. Stupid is better. No argument here.. :)

not sure how a simple plan equals stupid but ok.

[surly74]

A scam is a confidence game or other fraudulent scheme, esp. for making a quick profit; swindle. In what way is a reverse mortgage not a scam? The companies profiting from them are swindling money, or even a house by doing it. Solitary

maybe bank regulations are different in US and Canada regarding reverse mortgages but it doesn't sound like a scam. it's just using the equity in your home to get cash.

//http://www.reverseyourmortgage.ca/faq/frequently-asked-questions/

That's exactly what it is.  Other variations of the same thing are called equity lines, where you borrow money on the equity in your home.  You're just using your home as collateral.  

Some guy at the bank sits around and thinks of arrays of "creative financial instruments" which are presented as "many ways to meet your specific financial goals", but they are all based on one common theme:  The bank gives you money, you assume debt, you owe the bank with interest.  They also charge you fees to set these things up.

It's not a scam, unless they tell you it's something else, like maybe you're getting money for free.  But here's the secret: No bank gives you free money.  It wouldn't work to the bank's advantage.  They don't do it. :-D

don't know if they have it in the US but there is a mortgage product that lumps everything together, mortgage, line of credit, savings accounts. it's supposed to pay off your mortgage faster but it's very easy to burn through your equity.

[Brian37]

The title itself is a fucking scam.

Name me one way you can get money from a private industry without paying it back? What happens if you don't pay back this "reverse mortgage"?

Does anyone really think that a private loan company is going to simply say "you still own your home" if you fail to pay?

That is the language they use.

[SGOS]

The title itself is a fucking scam.

Name me one way you can get money from a private industry without paying it back? What happens if you don't pay back this "reverse mortgage"?

Does anyone really think that a private loan company is going to simply say "you still own your home" if you fail to pay?

That is the language they use.

I Googled reverse mortgage, just to double check.  If I read it right, you actually don't pay interest while you draw down your equity (it might vary depending on the agreement with the bank), I think that is, until the time you decide you want to keep your home.  Then you give them back the money with interest.  Not all people draw their equity down to zero (I'm not sure you could), and just use the reverse to get a loan.  Why they would choose that instead of an equity loan, I'm not sure.

See what you think: http://www.dfs.ny.gov/consumer/reversemortgage.htm
Also of Interest, sometimes it backfires: http://www.cnbc.com/id/100788816

[SGOS]

Debt is often necessary for first time home buyers and younger folks.  Personally, I think seniors should avoid it like a plague, but then I'm not a high financier, and never planned to leverage my debt into wealth.  Debt strikes me as an albatross one carries around month after month.  There's an initial rush when you get the money, a car, or a home, but that is quickly followed by years of working for the bank and making sacrifices.  I don't understand the concept of seniors depending on their home equity to supplement their retirement income.  It would seem like paying off the debt before you retire would allow you to live in the home relatively cheaply, while you supplement your income with the extra money you're not giving to the bank each month.

[Brian37]

It's not a scam, unless they tell you it's something else, like maybe you're getting money for free. But here's the secret: No bank gives you free money. It wouldn't work to the bank's advantage. They don't do it.

Yes, legally fucking your fellow human over is legal as long as you tell them you are going to fuck them over. But there is a HUGE difference between legal and moral.

[surly74]

It's not a scam, unless they tell you it's something else, like maybe you're getting money for free. But here's the secret: No bank gives you free money. It wouldn't work to the bank's advantage. They don't do it.

Yes, legally fucking your fellow human over is legal as long as you tell them you are going to fuck them over. But there is a HUGE difference between legal and moral.

what are you so mad about?

do you know what equity is? that's all this is.

[surly74]

Debt is often necessary for first time home buyers and younger folks.  Personally, I think seniors should avoid it like a plague, but then I'm not a high financier, and never planned to leverage my debt into wealth.  Debt strikes me as an albatross one carries around month after month.  There's an initial rush when you get the money, a car, or a home, but that is quickly followed by years of working for the bank and making sacrifices.  I don't understand the concept of seniors depending on their home equity to supplement their retirement income.  It would seem like paying off the debt before you retire would allow you to live in the home relatively cheaply, while you supplement your income with the extra money you're not giving to the bank each month.

once the senior sells the house the debt is paid back.

[Brian37]

It's not a scam, unless they tell you it's something else, like maybe you're getting money for free. But here's the secret: No bank gives you free money. It wouldn't work to the bank's advantage. They don't do it.

Yes, legally fucking your fellow human over is legal as long as you tell them you are going to fuck them over. But there is a HUGE difference between legal and moral.

what are you so mad about?

do you know what equity is? that's all this is.

Bullshit, if it is lagit, then why the Orwellian double speak language "Reverse mortgage"? A loan on your equity is still a loan, the implication in the commercial is that their is no risk. It is intended to suck the "equity" out of high risk people by preying on their desperation. "equity" is the estimated value of your property vs what you  owe. And what they should be calling it if they were being honest is "collateral".  

Bottom line is that it is a high risk loan and your house is collateral and if you fail to pay, which is how the contract is set up, to insure failure, making it "technically" possible, but in reality is set up basically legalized pick pocketing.

It is a sick scam that preys upon people to rob them. It is no different than a multi level marketing scam. They get away with it by pointing out a minority of success when what is really going on is masking the robbery.

Normal loans and re finance loans are not deceptive and do not use such language.