The Logic of Atheists vs. Theist Arguments

[Absolute_Agent]

You think we live in the Matrix?

Of sorts, but a benign loving matrix- with infinite interwoven dimensions.

Sent from my moto e5 play using Tapatalk

[SGOS]

Of sorts, but a benign loving matrix- with infinite interwoven dimensions.

I never thought I would ever hear myself say this, but you need to stop going to the movies.

[Absolute_Agent]

I know what you're talking about, because I've been there. Problem is, it's all psychological; it's in your head. If God were really detectable, we would see signs of his presence in an objective, laboratory setting. But the only way you "detect" God is through your feelings and primed imagination.

People tend to attribute personhood to things that don't have it, like the traffic light that changes just in time to stop you, as if it's just trying to make you mad. Early man gave personhood to animals and aspects of nature, like the sun and the sea. But as those things became less mysterious, the gods retreated into the more abstract, metaphysical realm, where they could remain unknowable. Now, some of us continue to cling to the illogical notion of God because, like Linus van Pelt's blanket, it gives them comfort to think that some cosmic being has their back. Even though this supposedly benevolent god doesn't ever step in to stop man made or natural tragedies... What good is your god, really?

Really all that happened is assumptions changed, and then our experience changed correspondingly.  You assume there's no God, therefore you don't experience it. You assume there is an objective, non-psychological reality, therefore you experience that.  You assume matter is solid, therefore you experience that.  Any physicist will tell you matter isn't solid though. 

Sent from my moto e5 play using Tapatalk

[Absolute_Agent]

Absolute_Agent_Smith

I love Agent Smith

Sent from my moto e5 play using Tapatalk

[josephpalazzo]

No, I just agree with Tegmark's view on the primacy of number as the most fundamental reality. I'm not so sure numbers only reside in the human brain, or if the human brain is perceiving something abstract. It's an interesting quandary.

It's a simple observation: no humans, no numbers.

QED

[Unbeliever]

I doubt that the septillionth digit of pi is in anyone's head, but I believe there is a septillionth digit of pi.

[josephpalazzo]

I doubt that the septillionth digit of pi is in anyone's head, but I believe there is a septillionth digit of pi.

Yes by saying that you believe in it means it's in your head. Thanks for proving my point...;-)

[Unbeliever]

You're welcome! :-)

[josephpalazzo]

You're welcome! :-)

The point is: can numbers exist without a human mind? Well maybe dolphins could think in numbers. But then you need the minds of dolphins. It's pretty much along the same line as the alphabet - it takes a mind to create the alphabet. On the same note, math is just a language and why your computer can translate numbers (0's and 1's) into any language on this planet.

[Unbeliever]

Do the numbers in computers exist in human minds?

[Mr.Obvious]

I love Agent Smith

Sent from my moto e5 play using Tapatalk

More interesting character than neo.

[Simon Moon]

Really all that happened is assumptions changed, and then our experience changed correspondingly.  You assume there's no God, therefore you don't experience it. You assume there is an objective, non-psychological reality, therefore you experience that.  You assume matter is solid, therefore you experience that.  Any physicist will tell you matter isn't solid though. 

What you seem to be getting at, is we all have our confirmation bias.

But here's the thing, while I can't speak for all atheists, I do not assume there is no god. My position is, that theists have failed to meet their burden of proof to convince me there is a god.

My default position is not, that there are no gods. My default position is, that I am unjustified to believe that gods exist.

[Hydra009]

Much of it sure seems to be made of things that can be expressed in numbers.  And I'm amazed that physicists can reduce things to such simple mathematical expressions.  For example the relationship between matter and energy  E = mc2.  It's almost like some person must have decided that was going to be the relationship, rather than discovered it.

From what I've read, it's not quite that simple...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnMIhxWRGNw

And for reasons that are admittedly a little beyond me, it seems to make sense that mass and energy are related/convertible and it's reasonable that the speed of light is in the mix, since that's a fundamental constraint on the velocity of a particle.

Boiling it down into something that elegantly concise is - don't get me wrong, extremely clever and intelligent - but it is also something could be expected from people's innate desire for simplicity.

[SGOS]

My default position is not, that there are no gods. My default position is, that I am unjustified to believe that gods exist.

Most theists will ignore this position.  It appears incomprehensible to most.  They defend the existence of a god with such fervor that a noncommittal position appears to be denial.  If you are not with them, you must be against them.  There can be no neutrality or 3rd alternative.  You must believe there is a god, or that there is no god.  To them this is logical.  I think they comprehend the position of neutrality, but they act in a way that supports the perception that a person who does not believe opposes them with the same limited vision and fervor that equals their own.  This has been explained several times in this thread, but Absolute replies as if it has never been mentioned.

[josephpalazzo]

Do the numbers in computers exist in human minds?

If you open your computer you will find they don't exist there. What you have are switch on and off. Symbolically they are represented by 0's and 1's, by none other than the human mind who programs them. There are no such things as 1, 2, 3... in nature. These are purely symbols invented by the human mind, just like A, B, C...Blow the earth to smithereens and those numbers (and alphabet) cease to exist, unless there are other intelligent life somewhere in some far away galaxy... who can invent them, just like they would invent an alphabet of their own.