How many GODS do you have?

[josephpalazzo]

The very few that wish to come back are usually parents worry for their young kids.


(red color mine)

Evidence? Oh wait, you have none. Just like your story,

Put in this way Baruch.
Suppose you are a doctor.
You have a chap that died in front of you.
No blood+oxygen run through his head for the last 15-20 minutes.
In the meantime you and other medical staff try your very best to bring him back to life.
After sometime the chap come back to life and describe not only what you were doing to save him but even what you were thinking.

I ask for evidence of that story, and you conveniently ignore.


LOL.

[Arik]

Yes, the patient's account of events is anecdotal. The doctor's account, in that their patient was revived from near death, was not anecdotal.

Oh, my God...........

You are a total joke SM.
So one is anecdotal and one is not........
Why don't you explain how the patient was able to see and perceive what was happening once he lies dead and his experience was confirmed by all present in the surgery?

Get real man.

OK, let's look at this story as you are describing. Although, I question that it happened like you said.

Read SM, read a little bit of these NDEs where people are real and not invented characters like in a novel story.
https://www.nderf.org/Archives/exceptional.html

First of all, death is a physical process,

Unfortunately you forget that physical death is not the I or consciousness death.

not a single event, as in; one moment you are alive, the next you are dead. So, the statement that the patient "died  in front of you" is not accurate.

We say that a chap is dead when we see his-her body dead but again in reality nobody ever did die and nobody will ever die because energy-consciousness is behind death.

Second, in a hospital situation, there would be very little time that there would be "no blood+oxygen run through his head", especially not for 15-20 minutes. You understand that doctors would be breathing and pumping blood for a patient under the circumstances. Have you ever heard the terms "Intubation" and "cardiopulmonary resuscitation"? These are the medical terms for very effective methods for breathing and assisting blood flow for patients.

If the patient is in surgery, the process is even more effective, in that, the patient is connected to a heart-lung machine at all times.

So, where is this period of 15-20 minutes of "no blood+oxygen run through his head" for the patient?

What do you think happens during the process of the medical staff "trying their best to bring you back to life"? They are breathing and assisting blood flow for the patient. Again, no loss of oxygen or blood to the brain. And again, the patient is not dead yet, because death is a process. It's not like turning off a light switch.

No, the patient was revived from NEAR DEATH. He was in the process of dying, when medical science prevented that process from continuing, and revived the patient.

During the preceding time of near death, the patient's brain was in crisis. When he is revived, his brain tries to fill in the missing time with images, sounds, speech from his memories. I am sure the vast majority of patients have seen enough medical dramas on TV and movies, to create false memories based on them.

Fail again SM.

I am not arguing that in an emergency situation doctors do all those things in order to revive the person.
Unfortunately you do not get the fact that before the doctors do all those things the chap has already been deprived of blood-oxygen for quite a long time.
In fact most people have accidents or traumatic events well before they are taken to an emergency place and enough time has gone before doctors act on them.
In some case that event also happen in front of the doctors so they act faster that if the event happen before they get at the hospital.
So not in all cases doctors are there to act ASAP and obviously every case is different.

Memory does not work the way you think it does. It is not like the brain has a bunch of fully intact videos of your past, that every time you remember an event, that video plays. Memory it more like a relational database.

Your knowledge of modern medicine and human memory is, lets say, a bit lacking. I'm being a bit charitable there.

An NDE did not happen to me or to you so we both do not know exactly how the memory works.
What I do know is that it is wise to rely on the experiences of those who had an NDE which is something that you avoid doing.

In other word it would be better that you start stop deducing something that is the fruit of your imaginary beliefs and here I am a bit charitable. 

[Cavebear]

Interesting point CB.

Obviously you haven't read much of the NDEs.
If you would have then you would find that many NDEs also happen outside hospitals but those have no witnesses which is the material that skeptics require 24/7 that is why I try to lead the skeptics towards the NDEs with witnesses.

First, I am not "CB".  To you or anyone else.

Second, NDEs tend to happen in hospitals because of the effects of anesthesia.  That seldom happens outside of hospitals.

Third, NDEs tend to happen at extreme bodily/brain stress (the two are interrelated), which don't usually occur in observable situations outside of hospitals.

[Arik]

Evidence? Oh wait, you have none. Just like your story,


I ask for evidence of that story, and you conveniently ignore.


LOL.

I also asked you to read a bit of those NDEs so you would have found out this and that.

There are hundreds or thousand of those NDEs.
I hope you don't ask me to read that for you Jos.
I already been there and done that so now is your time to get up your a.. and do your home work.
Thanks.

[Cavebear]

Read SM, read a little bit of these NDEs where people are real and not invented characters like in a novel story.
Unfortunately you forget that physical death is not the I or consciousness death.
We say that a chap is dead when we see his-her body dead but again in reality nobody ever did die and nobody will ever die because energy-consciousness is behind death.
Fail again SM.
What I do know is that it is wise to rely on the experiences of those who had an NDE which is something that you avoid doing.
In other word it would be better that you start stop deducing something that is the fruit of your imaginary beliefs and here I am a bit charitable. 

Provide falsifiable examples.
Define medical death.
If NDEs are personal to the individual (as the must be unless others to detect the event, it is all anecdotal.

[Arik]

First, I am not "CB".  To you or anyone else.

I am so so sorry for that. 

Second, NDEs tend to happen in hospitals because of the effects of anesthesia.
That seldom happens outside of hospitals.

What a load of garbage man.
In fact is the other way around.
Just read these NDEs to find out.

Third, NDEs tend to happen at extreme bodily/brain stress (the two are interrelated), which don't usually occur in observable situations outside of hospitals.

More garbage.
In most cases people are brought to hospitals when the event already happened and in most cases people die suddenly so bodily-brain stress hardly occur.
When you have a serious accident you just haven't got any time to create any stress.
You just die suddenly.

[Arik]

Provide falsifiable examples.
Define medical death.

Medical death is when the brain cells are dead which happen within 3 minutes average and in 10 minutes in very rare cases from the time that the blood-oxygen stop getting into the brain.
According to me physical death happen when the consciousness leave the body and that can happen even before the 3 or 10 minutes.

If NDEs are personal to the individual (as the must be unless others to detect the event, it is all anecdotal.

The anecdotal automatically turn into evidence as soon as the experience is verified by witnesses as I already explain in previous post.

[Cavebear]

I am so so sorry for that. 

What a load of garbage man.
In fact is the other way around.
Just read these NDEs to find out.



More garbage.
In most cases people are brought to hospitals when the event already happened and in most cases people die suddenly so bodily-brain stress hardly occur.
When you have a serious accident you just haven't got any time to create any stress.
You just die suddenly.

"I am so so sorry for that."

Apology accepted, and don't trouble yourself about it further. 

"When you have a serious accident you just haven't got any time to create any stress."
You are thinking conscious stress.  When I said stress I meant the stress to the body and to the brain trying to survive the physical shock.  Don't confuse that with New Age mindbody ideas though.  I DON'T mean that.

[Baruch]

Good, I didn't think your post suggested that.

You are not my Mommy.

[Baruch]

Anecdotal evidence is never trustworthy.  I have personal family claims that I don't care to share, but the "evidence" on both sides was anecdotal and all unprovable.  I had to decline to choose.  Both sides were angry at me for "not trusting them".  That is a reason to refuse "anectodal evidence".  Ir isn't actually evidence of any sort.

You are "Null-A"?  Do tell.  Give some examples.

For some purposes, third party anecdotal evidence is ... for entertainment purposes only.  But my own testimony about myself, is also anecdotal.  I do trust that.  And I am not so paranoid as to think that all third party statements are BS.  Some people honestly believe their BS, they aren't used camel salesmen.

[Baruch]

One might also wonder why it has to be during surgery.  Wouldn't one expect to have the same experience while sleeping in bed?  Or does God only observe surgeries?  LOL!

In metaphysics, sleep is a fertile ground of experience.  Trance also.  Life threatening surgery is simply a more dramatic example.  For secular folks, dreams are trash and trance is delusion.

[Baruch]

Provide falsifiable examples.
Define medical death.
If NDEs are personal to the individual (as the must be unless others to detect the event, it is all anecdotal.

All human claims are falsifiable, because monkeys.

[Baruch]

Wrong.

"The National Conference of Commissioners on Uniform State Laws in 1980 formulated the Uniform Determination of Death Act. It states that: "An individual who has sustained either (1) irreversible cessation of circulatory and respiratory functions, or (2) irreversible cessation of all functions of the entire brain, including the brain stem is dead. A determination of death must be made in accordance with accepted medical standards." This definition was approved by the American Medical Association in 1980 and by the American Bar Association in 1981."


https://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=33438




Bullshit.

That is a legal definition, not a medical one.  The doctors and the relatives have to be legally protected from the suspicion of wrongful death.

[Cavebear]

You are not my Mommy.

Never thought I was.  Where did THAT come from.  And I even re-read the post to which you refer.

[Baruch]

Never thought I was.  Where did THAT come from.  And I even re-read the post to which you refer.

You are not my Daddy either.