Hi

[Baruch]

I would suggest that for human progress to be made (and yes, progress is possible) it must be materialistic.  Why?  Because there is nothing else but the material universe.  To base 'knowledge' on anything else is whim and fancy--magic and miracle--there is no 'there' there.  For over 2000 years christianity, for example, has had free reign in the world.  I don't see any progress it has made--in fact, I'd suggest the world is a more dangerous and poorer place because of it (and the other religions of the world).  Their airy-fairy ways; don't use reason only faith for your thoughts and actions--that simply leads to lack of progress and willful ignorance and stupidity.

As I pointed out, per-modern Micronesia was happy, and had no iPhones.  Quality over quantity.  If you have work you love (even if it is harvesting coconuts), a family you love and who loves you back, if you have friends who will support you ... does the level of technology, the lifespan, the chatchkas really matter?

Notice I am talking psychology, not religion.  But a quote ... “For what profits a man if he gains the whole world but loses his own soul” ... but not a meme-de-jour.

[Unbeliever]

I would suggest that for human progress to be made (and yes, progress is possible) it must be materialistic.  Why?  Because there is nothing else but the material universe.  To base 'knowledge' on anything else is whim and fancy--magic and miracle--there is no 'there' there.  For over 2000 years christianity, for example, has had free reign in the world.  I don't see any progress it has made--in fact, I'd suggest the world is a more dangerous and poorer place because of it (and the other religions of the world).  Their airy-fairy ways; don't use reason only faith for your thoughts and actions--that simply leads to lack of progress and willful ignorance and stupidity. 

Faith just means "believe what you're told by the religious leaders of your religion."

[Baruch]

Faith just means "believe what you're told by the religious leaders of your religion."

Gullibility just means "believe what you're told by the political leaders of your party".

[trdsf]

I would suggest that for human progress to be made (and yes, progress is possible) it must be materialistic.  Why?  Because there is nothing else but the material universe.  To base 'knowledge' on anything else is whim and fancy--magic and miracle--there is no 'there' there.  For over 2000 years christianity, for example, has had free reign in the world.  I don't see any progress it has made--in fact, I'd suggest the world is a more dangerous and poorer place because of it (and the other religions of the world).  Their airy-fairy ways; don't use reason only faith for your thoughts and actions--that simply leads to lack of progress and willful ignorance and stupidity.

Pretty much.  There has never been an instance where religion provided a more correct answer to a question about the universe than science did.

Put scientists and engineers together, and you get CERN and the International Space Station.

Put clerics of whatever stripe together, and you not only get fighting between, but within religions.

[Baruch]

Pretty much.  There has never been an instance where religion provided a more correct answer to a question about the universe than science did.

Put scientists and engineers together, and you get CERN and the International Space Station.

Put clerics of whatever stripe together, and you not only get fighting between, but within religions.

Put science together, get Zyklon B and the atom bomb.

[Arik]

Pretty much.  There has never been an instance where religion provided a more correct answer to a question about the universe than science did.

Religions, religions ...................who cares about the self imposed intermediaries between God and the masses.
Nothing to do with God.

Put scientists and engineers together, and you get CERN and the International Space Station.

Wonder why CERN pay tribute to SHIVA the very first scientist on earth and wonder why CERN is slowly discovering what SHIVA said thousand years ago?

Put clerics of whatever stripe together, and you not only get fighting between, but within religions.

Religions, religions...........who cares.
Nothing to do with spirituality.

[Mike Cl]

Put science together, get Zyklon B and the atom bomb.

I hate it Burach, when you don't finish your thought.  You forgot--but, but......Hilary and Obama.................!!!

[Arik]

I am a student of Zen.  To be woke you have to abandon reason.  But not empiricism, which is broadly interpreted as the sum of all personal experience (as opposed to public narrative).

It really depend where reason come from.
There is a volatile reason that come from physical science and the universal reality and one reason that come from within but in order to understand this reason a person must have build his-her consciousness to an high degree.

Marxism and Capitalism both believe in the myth of progress.  But progress has to be humanistic, not materialistic.

Yes.
Marxism and Capitalism believe in a very strange idea of progress which has nothing to do with human progress.

[Arik]

I would suggest that for human progress to be made (and yes, progress is possible) it must be materialistic.  Why?  Because there is nothing else but the material universe.  To base 'knowledge' on anything else is whim and fancy--magic and miracle--there is no 'there' there.  For over 2000 years christianity, for example, has had free reign in the world.  I don't see any progress it has made--in fact, I'd suggest the world is a more dangerous and poorer place because of it (and the other religions of the world).  Their airy-fairy ways; don't use reason only faith for your thoughts and actions--that simply leads to lack of progress and willful ignorance and stupidity.

I suppose it must be very very hard to understand whether the amount of good is more than the amount of bad in favor of religions but after all who cares.

As far as the belief that there is only the material universe this belief is as bad as any of the religious dogmas.
The day you or anyone else will show that the consciousness is made of matter then I will apologize with all those who said that there is nothing else but the material universe.

I am however adamant that that day will never come.

[Hydra009]

Spiritual development doesn't come very easily through reasoning.

*eyes roll*  Gee, I wonder why.

[Hydra009]

As far as the belief that there is only the material universe this belief is as bad as any of the religious dogmas.
The day you or anyone else will show that the consciousness is made of matter then I will apologize with all those who said that there is nothing else but the material universe.

[Baruch]

I hate it Burach, when you don't finish your thought.  You forgot--but, but......Hilary and Obama.................!!!

Well, Hillary and Obama had nothing to do with Zyklon B or the atom bomb, except ...

Hillary and Obama were behind the false flag gas attacks in Syria, the revolt in Libya, and the nuclear confrontation in Ukraine ...

[Baruch]

It really depend where reason come from.
There is a volatile reason that come from physical science and the universal reality and one reason that come from within but in order to understand this reason a person must have build his-her consciousness to an high degree.



Yes.
Marxism and Capitalism believe in a very strange idea of progress which has nothing to do with human progress.

Rationality (aka rational numbers only) ... 2+2=4 therefore there is no irrationality!  Pythagoras is G-d.

Empiricism (aka the obvious) ... I drop something and it falls, therefore there are no supernatural phenomena!  Galileo is G-d.

Reality ... rationalists prefer the rational, and ignore the irrational ... empiricists prefer the natural, and ignore the supernatural.  Both engage in cult of personality, particularly all properly degreed academics.  This is what happens when people go to college to be brainwashed.

[Mike Cl]

I suppose it must be very very hard to understand whether the amount of good is more than the amount of bad in favor of religions but after all who cares.

As far as the belief that there is only the material universe this belief is as bad as any of the religious dogmas.
The day you or anyone else will show that the consciousness is made of matter then I will apologize with all those who said that there is nothing else but the material universe.

I am however adamant that that day will never come.

I can understand why you think you live in a world of wonders and magic.  The wind must drive you crazy, since you can't see it.  And electricity and dog whistles must seem like miracles to you.  Of course infrared light cannot exist for you cannot see it.  Gravity must just boggle what passes for a mind for you. 

[Baruch]

I still find magnets mind boggling.  As did Einstein as a child.  You have to understand Dirac Equation theory to understand it.  Do you understand the Dirac Equation?