Damned Catholics - The Gift That Keeps On Giving!

[Draconic Aiur]

Inquisition ... serial killers?

Indeed. Also rapists priests for over 1000 years.

[Baruch]

Indeed. Also rapists priests for over 1000 years.

Humans, animals for 500,000 years.  Rape is normal animal behavior.

[Minimalist]

I thought we pretended to be superior to that?

[Unbeliever]

Is

I thought we pretended to be superior to that?

Yeah, isn't that the whole point of "civilization"? We aren't chained to our animal past as much as most people think we are. We can overcome our natural inclination toward ego-gratification and treat each other as moral agents. But we're still in the early stages of our civilizing, so we've got the transition to get through to a more humane and virtuous society. We may not get there, but who knows? Maybe we can come through then next several decades and make a better world. 

[Baruch]

I thought we pretended to be superior to that?

No donkey ever voted Dem, no elephant ever voted Rep ... so clearly the animals are superior to humans.  All animals would have voted for Gary Johnson in 2016, if only they could get to the polling stations, if only they had opposable thumbs ...

[Baruch]

IsYeah, isn't that the whole point of "civilization"? We aren't chained to our animal past as much as most people think we are. We can overcome our natural inclination toward ego-gratification and treat each other as moral agents. But we're still in the early stages of our civilizing, so we've got the transition to get through to a more humane and virtuous society. We may not get there, but who knows? Maybe we can come through then next several decades and make a better world.

Civilization  = urban shits parasitizing the rural majority (before 1900).  Apocalypse = urban shits are the majority, so parasitizing is collapsing.

[Cavebear]

Civilization  = urban shits parasitizing the rural majority (before 1900).  Apocalypse = urban shits are the majority, so parasitizing is collapsing.

Interesting thought.  And I admire farmers, coming from a long line of them.  How exactly are the "urban shits" parasites on the rural majority?  Haven't most advancements in technology come from cities?  Haven't those advancements aided farmers in producing more food?  When epidemics cross territories, did farmers develop the vaccines that living among animals caused? 

As I said, I admire farmers.  My paternal grampa was one and I loved it when we visited him.  I helped in his fields.  He said I was a natural farmer.  And I would have been.  Everything I did there just made good sense.

But there is value in city-folk as well.  If left to my farmer ancestors back as far as you want to consider, we would still be worn out and broken by age 50.  We would be dead from animal-transmitted diseases routinely.  The myth of "the healthy farmer" is exactly that - a myth.  We city-folk developed vaccines, more efficient and less human labor-intensive devices. 

My great-great-great-great grandfather started at the back end of an ass plowing fields that produced "X" tons of crops all his life.  Us city-folk invented machines (because HE sure didn't) that allowed his descendants to sit in an air-conditioned multi-purpose machine that literally plants crops on its own.

Am I missing something here?  Do I need to go on?

[Baruch]

You already dissed the "Cross of Gold" speech.  You probably think that meat comes naturally wrapped in cellophane.  We will reach peak human, can't be avoided.

[Cavebear]

You already dissed the "Cross of Gold" speech.  You probably think that meat comes naturally wrapped in cellophane.  We will reach peak human, can't be avoided.

You are talking to someone who has killed animals for food with gun and bow.  And butchered them.  And ate them.  I turned a dead deer in the garage into a year's worth of venison stew one year.  I wasn't very fond of the groundhog stew, though. 

Dad once brought me at 13/14 to a field where he hunted as a youth.  We saw nothing the whole afternoon.  Just before dusk, he whistled really loud and a groundhog popped up out of a burrow.  I aimed and shot my little .22.  Dad said I missed but I insisted we check.

Sure enough, I nailed the little sucker (I HATE groundhogs) right between the eyes.  I wish I hadn't.  Dad's rule was "you kill it, you eat it".  Groundhog is not "Good Eats".

[Baruch]

Yes, and if everyone followed the hunter/gatherer lifestyle, we can sustain a world population of 20 million people, with a pristine environment.  Much less since the environment is far from pristine.  As a hunter/gatherer I don't see you having particular expertise in farming/animal husbandry.

[Cavebear]

Yes, and if everyone followed the hunter/gatherer lifestyle, we can sustain a world population of 20 million people, with a pristine environment.  Much less since the environment is far from pristine.  As a hunter/gatherer I don't see you having particular expertise in farming/animal husbandry.

Wikipedia reports a "consensus" estimate of about 54 million pre-columbian native americans, so the world count by land mass would be about 5x that.

If civilization ended, the Earth would heal rapidly (fish in seas, mammals on land, flora everywhere).  Just during WWII, sealife rebounded quickly from cessation of commercial hunting.

Keep in mind that I never said I would be a hunter/gatherer.  At first, yes in a survivalist mode, but there are concepts that would remain.  Seeds, settlements, organization.  I would be a farmer in no time at all.

Hunter/gatherers do not unsettle prey populations.  After Columbus with indigenous peoples in North America for 14KY, Europeans reported populations of fish in the rivers so thick you could walk on them (a slight exaggeration, but you get the idea of the abundance).

[Baruch]

Go tell that to the wooly mammoths!

[Cavebear]

Go tell that to the wooly mammoths!

Hot Summers?

Seriously, yeah I meant not large prey.  Blew it.  I was reading a book on ice age europe waiting for posts.  Messed my mind...

[SeaLioness]

Scandals like the ones mentioned earlier in this thread were part of the reason I started questioning my Catholic faith.

From my perspective, the Catholic Church would basically tell me I was a horrible, evil person who couldn’t be forgiven for having a consensual, intimate relationship with a man (We both divorced and neither of us wants to marry again). All the while, this same Church that’s damning me for doing something that harms no one has institutionalized abuse of children though cover ups and excuses. I asked myself, how can they claim moral authority? How can they judge me when they can't even figure out what they are doing is wrong by all human standards.

[Mike Cl]

Scandals like the ones mentioned earlier in this thread were part of the reason I started questioning my Catholic faith.

From my perspective, the Catholic Church would basically tell me I was a horrible, evil person who couldn’t be forgiven for having a consensual, intimate relationship with a man (We both divorced and neither of us wants to marry again). All the while, this same Church that’s damning me for doing something that harms no one has institutionalized abuse of children though cover ups and excuses. I asked myself, how can they claim moral authority? How can they judge me when they can't even figure out what they are doing is wrong by all human standards.

I am married to a recovering catholic.  She asked that very question.  Now, tho, she is in recovery and is an atheist.