When did 'LIFE" begin? (Science in relation with the Biblical description)

[Baruch]

Now why do you say science does not measure time with the use of the Sun, Moon and Earth?
Do you see what the Bible says about time?
In the beginning God created the Heavens and Earth, and later on God said, let there be light, and it was evening and morning, the first day!

Therefore, I said, before the first day, we are in an era where Time did not exist as we measure it today, due to the absence of the Sun and Earth that did not exist 12.5 billion years ago at the Big Bang.
So, how does science determine 12.5 Billion years minus 4.5 billion years of absence of the Sun and Earth?
They imagine time.
Well, the Bible is correct again, before the first day, there were zero time, or as the Bible calls it...In the beginning.
If scientists wants to call it imaginary 12 billion years, they are welcome to do just that, it does not contradict the Bible!

Semantic bullshit by all posters.  Atomic time doesn't depend on the Sun or the Earth.  It is objective, human impressions of day/night are subjective.

[Cavebear]

I wonder if you realise that the Father of Geology was a guy with the name Nicola Steno.
He laid down the laws of Stratigraphy and Geology.
This is what he discovered:
1. The law of superposition: "... at the time when any given stratum was being formed, all the matter resting upon it was fluid, and, therefore, at the time when the lower stratum was being formed, none of the upper strata existed";
2. The principle of original horizontality: "Strata either perpendicular to the horizon or inclined to the horizon were at one time parallel to the horizon";
the principle of lateral continuity: "Material forming any stratum were continuous over the surface of the Earth unless some other solid bodies stood in the way"; and
3. The principle of cross-cutting relationships: "If a body or discontinuity cuts across a stratum, it must have formed after that stratum."

Guess what he said was the origins of this Geology we see on the Earth today?
A global flood!

And guess what else?
He was a Christian!

I love the Christian intellect that is able to unravel the work of God in the composition and origins of everything.

Why did the West acieve so much on science in all fields?
Guess what, the fathers of our current science, was all Christian!
They read the Bible.
Come on Atheists, get intellectual...
Read the Bible and become wise!

"Born to a Lutheran family, Steno converted to Catholicism in 1667. After his conversion, his interest for natural sciences rapidly waned giving way to his interest in theology."  I didn't see anything there about "a global flood"  I might have missed it.

As for the rest, how nice, you just quoted Wikipedia at us.  But added stuff in your mind about religion.

Science does not measure time by the Earth Moon or Sun.  We on Earth do because it is convenient, but that isn't science.

[Hakurei Reimu]

Guess what he said was the origins of this Geology we see on the Earth today?
A global flood!

So what if he did? He's wrong. Where are the worldwide deluvial deposits we expect to see in a global flood?

Come on Atheists, get intellectual...
Read the Bible and become wise!

Lots of us have already read the bible. It contains very little wisdom.

[Baruch]

So what if he did? He's wrong. Where are the worldwide deluvial deposits we expect to see in a global flood?
Lots of us have already read the bible. It contains very little wisdom.

Fiction, not fact.  Wisdom is knowing the difference.  Fact isn't wisdom.

[Mike Cl]

Fiction, not fact.  Wisdom is knowing the difference.  Fact isn't wisdom.

Understanding that a fact is really a fact and not rejecting it because it does not fit one's 'beliefs' is wisdom.

[Baruch]

Understanding that a fact is really a fact and not rejecting it because it does not fit one's 'beliefs' is wisdom.

You didn't pass English did you?  The color red is the same as the color green, Big Brother says so.  What you are describing is "smart" ... all synonyms don't equal each other.  Smart is good, but it is nowhere near wisdom.  Smart is knowing how to determine the caloric value of a bowl of cereal.  Wisdom is knowing not to eat Count Chocula.

[Mike Cl]

You didn't pass English did you?  The color red is the same as the color green, Big Brother says so.  What you are describing is "smart" ... all synonyms don't equal each other.  Smart is good, but it is nowhere near wisdom.  Smart is knowing how to determine the caloric value of a bowl of cereal.  Wisdom is knowing not to eat Count Chocula.

Well, for me, all too often, red and green are alike--red/green color blind.  Only 2nd grader to flunk coloring, I think.  And the wisdom of knowing not to each Count Chocula is based on all the facts about that cereal that we are aware of.

[Hydra009]

1. I think about 4 to 5 Billion years. The universe can also be 12.5 billion years old. But again, If the Sun and Moon did not exist as shining entities, we would not be able to claim that there was measurable time as days and years. (but lets rest that argument.)
2. Life started about 6 000 years ago.
3. Obviously humans are "life" and I said about 6YK.

~4.5 billion years ago: Earth formed
~4.5 billion years ago to ~6000 years ago: barren planet devoid of life
~6000 years ago: strolomites, anomalocaris.  Also, people.

Sounds legit.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Lots of us have already read the bible.

And that is probably the main reason we have atheists in this world.

[Baruch]

Well, for me, all too often, red and green are alike--red/green color blind.  Only 2nd grader to flunk coloring, I think.  And the wisdom of knowing not to each Count Chocula is based on all the facts about that cereal that we are aware of.

Claiming to be smart?  Demonstrated it?  And you do with NT history.  But your handicap (we all have them) has a tremendous influence over the whole of your life directly and indirectly.  Known facts?  Did you take a calorimeter and do the measurement, or just trust some damned authority?  No wisdom in that.

[Baruch]

And that is probably the main reason we have atheists in this world.

Bible reading sometimes produces ex-Christians ... not the same as X-something else, or never religious.  Most Christians never read the Bible.

For me the Bible is literature, i wasn't expecting Santa Claus from it.  So no disappointment to over-compensate for.

[Mousetrap]

Semantic bullshit by all posters.  Atomic time doesn't depend on the Sun or the Earth.  It is objective, human impressions of day/night are subjective.

Realy, after all those nice posts you come and ruin the relationship.
Now lets see how determining time works.
What is a day?
Uhmmm, this is from sundown to sundown the next day, roughly where the sun shines on the earth, and as the Earth moves on its' axis, to when the sun shines on that spot again.
OK, so what is an Hour?
Uhmmm, lets divide the day up into 24 hours.
Uhmmm, what is a minute.
Ok, lets divide the hour in 60.
But, what is a second?
Lets divide the Minute in 60.
Well done, but what is a year?
Well, it is when the position of the Earth when reaches the point as it traveled around the sun to its starting point, plus the extra distance as it has to gain to catch up on the advance of the Sun.
Lets measure it about 365 and one quorter of a day.
OK, but this means the Day is shorter than 24 Hours.
No problem, we will accept it as 24 Hours, but will add an additional day every 4 years.

Ok, so how do we measure Time.
Well, we started to build water clocks, sun dials, but this was cumbersome, and we built mechanical clocks, then watches then chronographs, then electronic watches and so on.
Wow, so does this mean we can use it to measure very long periods of Time accurately, say one, five, or even 10 years?

Nope, it was not that accurate, but what we did do was to built atomic clocks, and it can measure billionths of a part of seconds accurately over millions of years!

Nice, so how does it work?
Well, they built a clock using cesium and microwaves and vibrate it with certain frequencies, and use that as a second. Some huge numbers are involved.
Something like 10 thousand million vibrations makes up a second.
Wait, wait...how did they determine the length of a second?

Uh.....?
I think it comes from the age old measurement where we measured the position of the Earth and Sun...

[SGOS]

Bible reading sometimes produces ex-Christians ... not the same as X-something else, or never religious.  Most Christians never read the Bible.

For me the Bible is literature, i wasn't expecting Santa Claus from it.  So no disappointment to over-compensate for.

The Bible was never intended to be literature.  The Bible was and is sold as a divine truth and taken as fact in the circular reasoning used to prove something about the divine.  It doesn't make any difference what your expectations are before you read it.  When you understand that most of it is flat out wrong, fabricated lying, and unadulterated bullshit, it points the way to atheism.  But in my mind, we're not really there yet.

Some might stop right there and say they are atheists, but I don't think forum members here do that.  Atheism is only partly about the Bible being a myth.  If you apply the same skepticism to all other religions, supernatural beliefs, conspiracy theories, etc., as I believe people here do, you come to having no belief in any god.  That's hardly an over-compensation.

I think you allowed yourself to take some liberty with the term "over-compensation", because you were having fun using it to elevate your own beliefs, not because it was appropriate.

[Mousetrap]

The Bible was never intended to be literature.  The Bible was and is sold as a divine truth and taken as fact in the circular reasoning used to prove something about the divine.  It doesn't make any difference what your expectations are before you read it.  When you understand that most of it is flat out wrong, fabricated lying, and unadulterated bullshit, it points the way to atheism.  But in my mind, we're not really there yet.

Some might stop right there and say they are atheists, but I don't think forum members here do that.  Atheism is only partly about the Bible being a myth.  If you apply the same skepticism to all other religions, supernatural beliefs, conspiracy theories, etc., as I believe people here do, you come to having no belief in any god.  That's hardly an over-compensation.

I think you allowed yourself to take some liberty with the term "over-compensation", because you were having fun using it to elevate your own beliefs, not because it was appropriate.

The Science was never intended to be literature.  Atheism was and is sold as a divine truth and taken as fact in the circular reasoning used to prove absence of the divine.  It doesn't make any difference what your expectations are before you claim it.  When you understand that most of it is flat out wrong, fabricated lying, and unadulterated bullshit, it points the way to Theism.  But in my mind, we are really there.

Some might stop right there and say they are theists, but I don't think forum members here do that.  Atheism is only everything about the Bible being a myth.  If you apply the same skepticism to Atheism, supernatural beliefs, conspiracy theories, etc., as I believe people here do, you come to having no belief in any atheist.  That's hardly an over-compensation.

I think you allowed yourself to take some liberty with the term "under-compensation", because you were having fun using it to elevate your own beliefs, not because it was appropriate, but because atheism is a religion atheists want to deny.

How's this for trolling the troll.

[Mike Cl]

Did you take a calorimeter and do the measurement, or just trust some damned authority?  No wisdom in that.

Ah, but that is a full demonstration of wisdom.  I cannot be an expert in everything.  But there are people who are expert at virtually everything.  So, do I strive to know everything?  Not possible and would drive me and all around me crazy.  What to do?  Find an expert in whatever I need an expert in.  Find out what that expert thinks about said subject.  Then find out what his peers say.  Do they agree or mostly agree?  If so, then good to go for testing it for myself.  If they disagree, where and why.  Being smart means I know what most of the books of a library say and mean.  Having wisdom is knowing how to use a library so I can learn what I need when I need it.