Origins of the Universe. (Creation versus science. Do they contradict?)

[SGOS]

OK, yeah but is that what we want?   A Jerry Falwell/Trump/Ingraham?  This person pays no attention to reality and I don't think we need this one here.

Hey, don't blame me.  I'm not asking him to stay.

[Baruch]

all of this sciencey  stuff to try to prove his god exists....albeit one a little terrified by a woman's menstrual cycle. Hey! What good is a god what knows about that stuff eh? He dropped 2/3rds of the stars to the earth and barely a dent...now THATS a god........oy.

Women are scary, every day of the month ;-)

[Baruch]

The old claim that atheists are ll communists is too false to even worry about.

And "Ok, so atheists for over 100 years never knew that the Nebular Hypothesis came smack bang out of Genesis" is so innacurate.  The biblical account of Genesis is falsifiable, lacking any evidence, and scientifically innaccurate is SO many ways.  Do you think or do you just "believe".  Let's go from there.

Sociopaths come in many forms, some theist, some atheist.  But all communists are sociopaths, hence the overlap.

[Baruch]

Biologically, you are in error.
Please refer to some biological books and find out what the human body contains.

No, it is most Texans have brown eyes, because they are full of shit up to there ... please don't make non-Texans look better than us ...

[Unbeliever]

And dont tell me you are under the impression that Theories is proven fact, even without any supportive substance or any scientific fact.
Wow, how scientific practices have changed in the Atheistic camp.
And they accuse Christians in believing in fables, when they simply believe a Theory is fact!

There is no such thing in science as "proven fact." Even scientific "laws" are just our best understanding so far and may change with new observations.

[Unbeliever]

I sure love to appreciate good sarcasm!  Outstanding...

I, too, love a good sarcasm orgasm! :-D

[Cavebear]

No, it is most Texans have brown eyes, because they are full of shit up to there ... please don't make non-Texans look better than us ...

Thank you for reminding me why I blocked you previously. No point and all joke. The jester tent is around the back...

[Baruch]

Thank you for reminding me why I blocked you previously. No point and all joke. The jester tent is around the back...

You have such a "god" complex, for an atheist ;-))  Your ego is so large, that you can't even apologize appropriately ... without kissing your own ass at the same time.  Positively Papal infallibility.

[sdelsolray]

Hey, Mousetrap...

I predicted you would ignore the post below, provide creationist nonsense or grace us with your own invented dogma from the Religion of Mousetrapâ,,¢ -- a religion of one.

So far, you are ignoring the obvious identified fault in Genesis.  In my book, that makes you a coward, a disingenuous creationist and/or a willfully ignorant chump.  Of course, you can be all three at the same time.

In addition, he's cherrypicking and ignoring much.  For example, Genesis claims the earth and waters were created on the first day and stars did not exist until the fourth day.  Water contains oxygen.  The earth contains dozens and dozens of elements heavier than lithium.

Current scientific theory states all elements heavier than lithium are only formed in stars or through stellar processes.  Accordingly, there was no oxygen to form water and no heavier elements to form a large portion of the earth during Genesis "days" 1, 2 or 3 and for at least hundreds of millions of years of "day" four.

I suspect our new guest will ignore this critical path contradiction between Genesis and science.  It is one of many fatal flaws in Genesis.  Of course, there are many more similar contradictions.  But I think its best for now to provide just one of them and see if our guest responds with compelling evidence and argument.  I strongly suspect he will ignore it or provide some creationist nonsense.  Perhaps he will grace us with more dogma from the Religion of Mousetrapâ,,¢, a religion of one.

[Blackleaf]

Actually, one minor nitpick. The first chapter of Genesis makes no mention of God creating the waters. It says he created the "heavens and the earth," but it's implied that the waters were already there. God hovers over the waters and he moves some of it around, but the Bible kinda skims over the creation of water itself. This is probably because the belief at the time was that the earth sat on top of the waters, which were primordial, infinite, and always existed. Some said that the earth sat on the back of a turtle shell or something similar. There was no concept of outer space. They believed that the skies were a physical structure with vaults that would occasionally be opened to allow water to fall onto dry land (rain). So basically the earth was a little air bubble surrounded by water above and below.

[sdelsolray]

Actually, one minor nitpick. The first chapter of Genesis makes no mention of God creating the waters. It says he created the "heavens and the earth," but it's implied that the waters were already there. God hovers over the waters and he moves some of it around, but the Bible kinda skims over the creation of water itself. This is probably because the belief at the time was that the earth sat on top of the waters, which were primordial, infinite, and always existed. Some said that the earth sat on the back of a turtle shell or something similar. There was no concept of outer space. They believed that the skies were a physical structure with vaults that would occasionally be opened to allow water to fall onto dry land (rain). So basically the earth was a little air bubble surrounded by water above and below.

Agreed.  I'm not claiming the text of Genesis is thorough, consistent or accurate.  Still, "the waters" existed on the first day simply because Genesis claims water is there on the first day.  My point is simple.  Water cannot exist without oxygen and hydrogen.  Only stellar activity can form oxygen.  According to Genesis, stars were not "created" until the fourth day.  Thus, oxygen (and water) could not have existed until the forth day, at least according to current scientific theory and the text of Genesis.  Mousetrap avoids this glaring discrepancy, yet he claims science and Genesis are not in contradiction.  Other creationists have put forth a few infantile ad hoc apologetics to address this fatal flaw, such as:

1)  'Well, God created light on the first day and that must mean he created stars on the first day.'

or they get more apologetic with a special frame of reference:

2)  'Well, Genesis events are to be viewed from the surface of the Earth itself and from nowhere else.  Stars were created on the first day but they could not be seen (from Earth) until the fourth day.'

or they go anti-scientific and hypocritical:

3)  'Well, how do you know oxygen has to be formed in stars?  Were your there?"

or they go all magical:

4)  "Well, my God can do anything he wants.'

Of course, Mousedroppings Mousetrap can't use the anti-science apologetic unless he wants to reject standard stellar and atomic element evolution.  Since he seems to reject biological evolution, that is a possibility.

[Hydra009]

Actually, one minor nitpick. The first chapter of Genesis makes no mention of God creating the waters. It says he created the "heavens and the earth," but it's implied that the waters were already there. God hovers over the waters and he moves some of it around, but the Bible kinda skims over the creation of water itself. This is probably because the belief at the time was that the earth sat on top of the waters, which were primordial, infinite, and always existed. Some said that the earth sat on the back of a turtle shell or something similar. There was no concept of outer space. They believed that the skies were a physical structure with vaults that would occasionally be opened to allow water to fall onto dry land (rain). So basically the earth was a little air bubble surrounded by water above and below.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_(cosmogony)

The "water" in Genesis can be easily interchanged with the formless chaos of greco-roman mythology.  We can set it up right next to the Christmas tree as yet another borrowed tradition.

[Baruch]

Actually, one minor nitpick. The first chapter of Genesis makes no mention of God creating the waters. It says he created the "heavens and the earth," but it's implied that the waters were already there. God hovers over the waters and he moves some of it around, but the Bible kinda skims over the creation of water itself. This is probably because the belief at the time was that the earth sat on top of the waters, which were primordial, infinite, and always existed. Some said that the earth sat on the back of a turtle shell or something similar. There was no concept of outer space. They believed that the skies were a physical structure with vaults that would occasionally be opened to allow water to fall onto dry land (rain). So basically the earth was a little air bubble surrounded by water above and below.

Symbology.  The feminine, wet, chaotic.  The masculine, dry, orderly.  Literally those waters are a goddess, and the Spirt is having sex with it.  It was the Spirit who also impregnated the Virgin Mary.

[Blackleaf]

Symbology.  The feminine, wet, chaotic.  The masculine, dry, orderly.  Literally those waters are a goddess, and the Spirt is having sex with it.  It was the Spirit who also impregnated the Virgin Mary.

What does that make rain then...? On second thought, I don't want to know.

[Draconic Aiur]

Oh Great and powerful Mods and Admins grant us with your power to send Trap to purgatory!!!