Why Global Warming is another MSM Lie

[Baruch]

Well, you take Al Gore's factors that are causes of global warming, and then you add the causes he left out, and that cancels out global warming.  No wait.  I need to think about this some more.

OK, OK.  Try this.  When I first heard about global warming, the scientific calculations led scientists to conclude that we wouldn't see any actual effects for 100 years, but now we are ahead of that schedule, so global warming probably isn't real.  No wait.  Let me think.  I can do this.  I know I can.  I just need more time.  I'll have to get back to you later.

I saw the cyclic global warming chart ... I don't know how many years ago.  Before it was a political issue.  This was first suggested in the late 19th century, and first published in modern form in a 1975 issue of Science in an article by Columbia University scientist Prof Wally Broecker.

I also first saw and heard (attended a lecture by the main researcher, Dr Hubbert) that peak oil in the US would be declared in to be 1971 ... in 1973.  Shale oil production has changed that somewhat ...

https://reason.com/blog/2018/02/07/us-oil-production-will-exceed-its-1971-p

Here is the original projection by Dr Hubbert ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubbert_peak_theory

Of course eventually there will be peak US oil and peak World oil ... because we consume it faster than geology is making new oil.

Weather prediction is even less reliable than geophysical prediction.  But it remains the case, that the chart of Dr Broecker is very much in the style of Club of Rome as was the original Hubbert chart.  The Earth doesn't have one temperature at any given time, and arguing from averages ... is fraught with peril in any data set.  I know the weather tomorrow will be different than the weather today, both here and elsewhere.  But otherwise I don't know.  But like the peak oil prediction, it depends on what large numbers of people do in the future.  Nobody predicted shale oil back in 1971.

Club of Rome ... isn't that yet another European genocide project ... to save the world, we need to radically reduct the total population?

[pr126]

Europeans are desperate for the Darwin Award.

[Shiranu]

You have a weird obsession with being wrong about literally everything you open your mouth about...

[Blackleaf]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEYuYCKv5Vo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjlC02NsIt0

Do either of those two have an education in any science that would give them authority to speak on global warming? No? Then I don't care.

[Baruch]

Europeans are desperate for the Darwin Award.

Third time's a charm ... WW I, WW II ... WW III?

Yes, guy with Nobel Prize in physics is wrong, guys who have no Nobel in anything ... priceless.

But I won't trust my weatherman's predictions, no matter how many Swedish prize committee ladies he makes out with ...

[Cavebear]

Well, you take Al Gore's factors that are causes of global warming, and then you add the causes he left out, and that cancels out global warming.  No wait.  I need to think about this some more.

OK, OK.  Try this.  When I first heard about global warming, the scientific calculations led scientists to conclude that we wouldn't see any actual effects for 100 years, but now we are ahead of that schedule, so global warming probably isn't real.  No wait.  Let me think.  I can do this.  I know I can.  I just need more time.  I'll have to get back to you later.

Better more modern measurements have resulted in better more accurate predictions. 

[Gilgamesh]

Do either of those two have an education in any science that would give them authority to speak on global warming? No? Then I don't care.

In the world of arguments there is no authority. There are good arguments and there are bad arguments - and the arbitrary accolades of the makers of these arguments is non-influential on the goodness or badness of the arguments themselves.

[Cavebear]

Cavebear:  I think I've figured out the disconnect.  It was probably when I said "you're thinking too small".  Probably came of a bit arrogant, maybe even a bit conceited.

I could've phrased that a more diplomatically.  I meant to turn your attention to the vast scale of the problem (and thus any potential solution) that the individual barely registers on the map.

If you go grocery shopping in a Hummer, a Leaf, or a miniature black hole that sucks in only smog and creates artisinal craft beer, it doesn't much matter.  It's like worrying about a single leaky sink in the midst of a practically apocalyptic water crisis on an entire continent.  Sure, every little bit helps, but to put it bluntly, your sink is the least of our worries.

Because of our different senses of scale, we're talking past each other a little bit.

I agree.  And I think we can discuss this on larger terms.  Let's say I am thinking of replacing my 2005 Toyota Highlander that gets 18 MPG.  But I only drive 2,000 miles per year.  How much is buying a Chevy Bolt going to help the planet?  At 2,000 miles per year, it doesn't matter much.  And I recycle everything possible, compost anything that can be composted, and have LED lights I leave off in the house whenever possible.  Maybe that makes up for it.

But maybe the larger issues matter a lot more.  And perhaps you are better-prepared to address that.

[Gilgamesh]

btw 'global warming' was in fact an inaccurate description of what is going on. That's why it's now called 'climate change.' This amendment to the term wasn't made for nothing - it was made to reflect a more accurate description of reality; one that allows for certain contentions that the old 'global warming' theory didn't allow for, such as the idea that we are on the cusp of an ice age.

[Cavebear]

btw 'global warming' was in fact an inaccurate description of what is going on. That's why it's now called 'climate change.' This amendment to the term wasn't made for nothing - it was made to reflect a more accurate description of reality; one that allows for certain contentions that the old 'global warming' theory didn't allow for, such as the idea that we are on the cusp of an ice age.

I agree completely.  "Climate change" is much more accurate a term.  In some places, the more active weather patterns cool some places but heat other up more over time.  What it really means is higher fluctuations in weather patterns, bringing more active weather patterns to most places and with a global average temperature increase.  Caused by human activity.  That is one point I will not relent on.

[Gilgamesh]

I agree completely.  "Climate change" is much more accurate a term.  In some places, the more active weather patterns cool some places but heat other up more over time.  What it really means is higher fluctuations in weather patterns, bringing more active weather patterns to most places and with a global average temperature increase.  Caused by human activity.  That is one point I will not relent on.

Few people outright deny human affect on climate change, in my estimation. Rather, they disagree with the *extent* to which humans affect it. Without human industrialisation, we know that climate change would happen - and that this change would include global average temperature rise.

btw if you really care about the climate all y'all should go vegan since animal agriculture is responsible for 18% of all man-made greenhouse gasses, which is more than every vehicle on earth is responsible for.

[Cavebear]

Few people outright deny human affect on climate change, in my estimation. Rather, they disagree with the *extent* to which humans affect it. Without human industrialisation, we know that climate change would happen - and that this change would include global average temperature rise.

btw if you really care about the climate all y'all should go vegan since animal agriculture is responsible for 18% of all man-made greenhouse gasses, which is more than every vehicle on earth is responsible for.

You haven't listened to what US Republicans say about "climate change", have you?  They all deny it is IN ANY WAY caused by humans.

As far as "vegan" goes, it is really very difficult and inherently unhealthy overall.  Humans are naturally omnivores.  If it helps, my typical evening meal includes about 3 oz of meat (I weigh out portions), a large tossed salad with olive oil/vinegar, and 2 sides of various color veggies.  And multiple fresh fruits for "dessert" (snacks actually) for several hours before going to bed.

[Gilgamesh]

As far as "vegan" goes, it is really very difficult and inherently unhealthy overall. 

It is not unhealthy. One can get all their essential nutrients without animals as a food source. Also, vegan diet (or a vegetarian diet that is sufficiently close enough to being a vegan diet) is the only known way to reverse heart disease. Saturated fat, which animal products are rich in, are known to cause inflammation and heart disease in humans, and all the statistics show that carnists, relative to vegans, develop cancer, diabetes, and cardiovascular diseases at a higher rate. Carnism literally kills you - because animal product as a 'food' source is carcinogenic to humans.

Humans are naturally omnivores.

Humans are herbivores. Atherosclerosis is a disease only herbivores can get - and they get it from consuming animal products. Humans get this disease, and they get it by eating animal products; therefore we are herbivores. Humans have been eating meat for way less of their evolutionary history than they were eating plant life for. We evolved as herbivores - our minds allowed us the intelligence to become faux opportunity eaters, but that's not what we evolved to be; we are not suited for carnism.

Going vegan is easy as fuck tbh. Our sick society conditions us to eat at least 3 times a day, and that a meal isn't complete without an animal food source. Both of these habits are detrimental to our health. I personally eat 2 vegan meals a day, and both in the span of the same 4 hours every day (intermittent fasting.)

[Cavebear]

It is not unhealthy. One can get all their essential nutrients without animals as a food source. Also, vegan diet (or a vegetarian diet that is sufficiently close enough to being a vegan diet) is the only known way to reverse heart disease. Saturated fat, which animal products are rich in, are known to cause inflammation and heart disease in humans, and all the statistics show that carnists, relative to vegans, develop cancer, diabetes, and cardiovascular diseases at a higher rate. Carnism literally kills you - because animal product as a 'food' source is carcinogenic to humans.
Humans are herbivores. Atherosclerosis is a disease only herbivores can get - and they get it from consuming animal products. Humans get this disease, and they get it by eating animal products; therefore we are herbivores. Humans have been eating meat for way less of their evolutionary history than they were eating plant life for. We evolved as herbivores - our minds allowed us the intelligence to become faux opportunity eaters, but that's not what we evolved to be; we are not suited for carnism.

Going vegan is easy as fuck tbh. Our sick society conditions us to eat at least 3 times a day, and that a meal isn't complete without an animal food source. Both of these habits are detrimental to our health. I personally eat 2 vegan meals a day, and both in the span of the same 4 hours every day (intermittent fasting.)

What we have here is a denial of our evolution and overall health. 

1.  Humans are NOT herbivores.  If we were, we would look like cows or gorillas.
2.  Our bodies are not built for an herbivore diet.  Our guts are too small and our intestines too short.
3.  There are  some essential minerals and vitamins that Vegans need supplements for.
4.  Among those are proteins, iron, zinc, calcium, B-12 (which does not exist naturally in any non-animal forms) Vitamin D, and Omega-3 fatty acids.
5.  Our complex brains were evolved partially in response to the acquisition on meat, and furthered by cooking it before consumption.

We are omnivorish "enough" that people can survive without eating meat so long as they get supplements for what they lack by eating meat.

And that is not to say I regard a "carnivorish" diet to be healthy either.  I would make some of the same arguments to a true human carnivore, and an long-time friend was one.  He considered the onion and pickle on his usual hamburgers "his veggies" (and he rarely ate much of the bun).  And he he a nearly constant problem with nearly fainting if he didn't eat every couple of hours.  What HE lacked was slow-released carbs.  It took me almost 2 decades to get him to understand that I could go about my life to hard work eating only 2-3 meals a day because actual vegetables (as opposed to a pickle on a hamburger) were longer-lasting sources of energy.  Eventually, he learned to eat raw broccoli florets, raw asparagus. and (later) chinese restaurant meals and he admitted his health was much better.

Some I'm not "for" either diet, just recognize that neither extreme is totally right.  Both extremes lack things we need.  As in politics, extremism is never good.

[Gilgamesh]

There are  some essential minerals and vitamins that Vegans need supplements for.

Nope:

Among those are proteins, iron, zinc, calcium, B-12 (which does not exist naturally in any non-animal forms) Vitamin D, and Omega-3 fatty acids.

Out of all of those, b12 and vit d are the only thing that a vegan diet is at risk for being deficient in. If a vegan becomes deficient in anything other than these then they are retarded because non-animal food sources readily provide everything else we need - people just need to educate themselves to find out what food sources contain what - shouldn't take longer than half an hour on the internet. (By the way both b12 and vit d deficiency are among the most common deficiencies in people - period - carnists and vegans alike.) Your contention that b12 exists naturally only in animals is false. Microorganisms, primarily bacteria, are the only known organisms that manufacture b12. The animals and their products (eggs, dairy) you eat which have b12 in are added artificially. It used to be humans derived b12 from the water they drank. We drink treated water now, and so do factory-farmed animals - which also need b12 - and so the meat and dairy industry supplement the animals.

Because vegans don't consume supplemented animal flesh, eggs, or dairy; dairy alternatives to a large degree supplement their products. For example virtually all dairy-free milks (almond milk, soy milk, coconut milk, ect.) have vitamin d and b12 added. Vegans do not need to supplement these things.

Veganism, if done properly, is fundamentally healthier than the best possible form of carnism, because animal food sources are literally carcinogenic to humans.

it is also ethically superior and environmentally superior.