Am I crazy?

[Mister Agenda]

It's not crazy to believe what you were raised to believe and what everyone important to you takes for granted is true. It's pretty normal. I think we should feel compassion for them, because beliefs that are essentially nonsensical are most harmful to the believers themselves.

Although atheists tend to be slightly more intelligent on average than believers, there are plenty of believers smarter than the average atheist. Although intelligence can be a factor in figuring out the flaws of a religion, it is almost as useful in rationalizing continued belief.

The most important factor in not being a theist is luck: not being raised one, innate skepticism towards theism from a young age, the sometimes long slog pulling our of it...we were lucky to be in those circumstances or have those qualities. Theists are misguided, trapped in memes they don't even know are deceptions, that they don't even want to escape from.

LIke I said, compassion or pity seems more appropriate than contempt. My two cents.

[Mai Mariarti]

If I may ask - what belief(s) are stronger?

For starters, The fact that I am outnumbered gazillion to one, The insanity of the republican's way of reasoning, That I am mortal and nothing I can do changes that, That God is a figment of our imagination, That we can perish in an event as simple as an asteroid strike, That religion has held us back for hundreds of years and made us backwards, That majority of people that are on antidepressants, are depressed because of what goes on around the world that makes them so depressed and think that medication will help them when they don't really need it and will be fine if the world was a better place. That the Middle east would not be on fire if there were no "false righteousness" and arm dealers trying to cash in, on the small differences that exists between the religions.
These are just examples. I could write volumes, but what would be the point of that. Humans seem to have a need to experience it the hard way and won't just take someone's experience or word for it; that the street they are traveling on, is a dead end.

[WitchSabrina]

If I may ask - what belief(s) are stronger?

For starters, The fact that I am outnumbered gazillion to one, The insanity of the republican's way of reasoning, That I am mortal and nothing I can do changes that, That God is a figment of our imagination, That we can perish in an event as simple as an asteroid strike, That religion has held us back for hundreds of years and made us backwards, That majority of people that are on antidepressants, are depressed because of what goes on around the world that makes them so depressed and think that medication will help them when they don't really need it and will be fine if the world was a better place. That the Middle east would not be on fire if there were no "false righteousness" and arm dealers trying to cash in, on the small differences that exists between the religions.
These are just examples. I could write volumes, but what would be the point of that. Humans seem to have a need to experience it the hard way and won't just take someone's experience or word for it; that the street they are traveling on, is a dead end.

You're on the right path for intellectual freedom --- keep up the strong thinking.  It's a pleasure to read your posts.
Somethings might come hard to swallow but day by day you will realize that self awareness and honesty are above and beyond bullshit and the mind control religion offers.  You're doing good.
And Here - this forum - is a good place to share and ask questions.  Good people here to talk to.

again
welcome!

[Mai Mariarti]

It's not crazy to believe what you were raised to believe and what everyone important to you takes for granted is true. It's pretty normal. I think we should feel compassion for them, because beliefs that are essentially nonsensical are most harmful to the believers themselves.

Although atheists tend to be slightly more intelligent on average than believers, there are plenty of believers smarter than the average atheist. Although intelligence can be a factor in figuring out the flaws of a religion, it is almost as useful in rationalizing continued belief.

The most important factor in not being a theist is luck: not being raised one, innate skepticism towards theism from a young age, the sometimes long slog pulling our of it...we were lucky to be in those circumstances or have those qualities. Theists are misguided, trapped in memes they don't even know are deceptions, that they don't even want to escape from.

LIke I said, compassion or pity seems more appropriate than contempt. My two cents.

I agree and dis-agree at the same time. Like the documentary "religulous" pointed out, these beliefs do hurt others by propagating ignorance. My mother is a devoted Muslim regardless of my attempts (her own son) to try to enlighten her. But as my father said "You can't change stupid, no matter how hard you try". They must be willing to change and see the err of their ways first, and then, change their thinking their own way.
I miss him so much. I don't know why he had to die? He was my best companion. We used to shoot the shit on philosophy and religion for hours and I miss that very much.
I had a very educated, very enlightened agnostic father and an ignorant, superficial, superstitious, stupid and religious mother. Not a very good combination.
I asked my father on many occasions, what he saw in her, and never got a satisfactory response. Just that people always need something to keep them going
.

[WitchSabrina]

I agree and dis-agree at the same time. Like the documentary "religulous" pointed out, these beliefs do hurt others by propagating ignorance. My mother is a devoted Muslim regardless of my attempts (her own son) to try to enlighten her. But as my father said "You can't change stupid, no matter how hard you try". They must be willing to change and see the err of their ways first, and then, change their thinking their own way.
I miss him so much. I don't know why he had to die? He was my best companion. We used to shoot the shit on philosophy and religion for hours and I miss that very much.
I had a very educated, very enlightened agnostic father and an ignorant, superficial, superstitious, stupid and religious mother. Not a very good combination.
I asked my father on many occasions, what he saw in her, and never got a satisfactory response. Just that people always need something to keep them going
.

We could spend all day long discussing the Pain and Horrors religion has perpetuated upon mankind.  Yes - religion is very dangerous.  It's like some crazycrap  drug that waaay too many people took are are walking around all numb & starry eyed.  Stupid stuff really.

[Mai Mariarti]

We could spend all day long discussing the Pain and Horrors religion has perpetuated upon mankind.  Yes - religion is very dangerous.  It's like some crazycrap  drug that waaay too many people took are are walking around all numb & starry eyed.  Stupid stuff really.

We could. But what would the point? We have evolved beyond that. If they want to live in the 14th century and have backwards views and call it "Conservative views", Their is not much any of us can do. And that was my point. People don't think they are doing anything wrong. A crazy person don't believe you if you tell them they are acting crazy.
What do you do when people don't even know they are veering from the path of truth, Not much. Actually, there is nothing you could do or say that will change their mind.
I wondered why I even seek and post on forums like this? is it that I have an ego to please? I don't think that's the case.
It's more like the cancer patients whom are looking for people who are infected with the same disease, and want to find solace in knowing that they are not alone. That there are others who are also inflicted with this disease.

[Mai Mariarti]

Explain to me again....why do you want to be ignorant? Do you think that will make you happier?

Yes. Assuming one will not remember the past, I would rather be the stupid I was before 27.
Ignorance is really bliss if you don't remember the past.
But that's wishful thinking like the tooth ferry and the rest of the childish dreams and stories.
Since that isn't reality, I will have to suffer the consequences.
I once read that philosophers are all suffering from depression. I think it to be true. I don't like it anymore than you do, and tried to fight it, but lost.

[WitchSabrina]

We could spend all day long discussing the Pain and Horrors religion has perpetuated upon mankind.  Yes - religion is very dangerous.  It's like some crazycrap  drug that waaay too many people took are are walking around all numb & starry eyed.  Stupid stuff really.

We could. But what would the point? We have evolved beyond that. If they want to live in the 14th century and have backwards views and call it "Conservative views", Their is not much any of us can do. And that was my point. People don't think they are doing anything wrong. A crazy person don't believe you if you tell them they are acting crazy.
What do you do when people don't even know they are veering from the path of truth, Not much. Actually, there is nothing you could do or say that will change their mind.
I wondered why I even seek and post on forums like this? is it that I have an ego to please? I don't think that's the case.
It's more like the cancer patients whom are looking for people who are infected with the same disease, and want to find solace in knowing that they are not alone. That there are others who are also inflicted with this disease.

That's a good point  and probably very true for me (at least)  I won't speak for anyone else but Oh My Yes I have a huge ego.  That AND I do live amongst believers[1] sooooo   trying to keep my head screwed on straight? This place becomes my salvation.  (had to use that word - my bad) LOL
I've had some prickly questions about religion most of my life - is it right or is it Wrong....... so Wrong you can actually validate HOW wrong historically.  I've struggled and teetered on the edge of what's real and what's not.  I spent Plenty of years giving the religious my time and attention to see what that might offer. So Now....... I listen and learn from the other side of that coin.
In my way of thinking it's ok to say " I know what I Think.............buuut....... I really don't know for sure." Sometimes I really care if the religious sort are stomping about pitching "Holy God" this or that.  And sometimes I do not care.  Kinda depends on how demanding they are, how hard a sell they're trying to make; are they So arrogant that they won't even come close to questioning things for themselves?  Those things bother me.  And I REALLY hate it when someone gets all full of themselves like I'm stupid if I Don't believe.  That'll bring steam...

eh...... I'm rambling.  lol    Good to talk to you 'bout such things.


[1] but not Too bad

[Mai Mariarti]

That's a good point and probably very true for me (at least) I won't speak for anyone else but Oh My Yes I have a huge ego.
Having an ego is so natural. Without it, there would be no point of living and what separates us from animals, well at least most non-mammals.
There is a price we pay for EVERYTHING we do. Even when you get out of bed, there is a risk that we could fall in the shower and break our neck or get hit by a car while walking on the sidewalk. But we take that risk because life would be pretty boring lying around in bed all day.
The price we pay by being an atheist, is ridicule and sometimes a sense of hopelessness like if we were put in a classroom full of deaf and mutes when we could hear and talk.
Being enlightened in an unenlightened world, is depressing at times and things don't make a lot of sense because the majority of people speak in the language of nonsense called religion.
But unfortunately, once you are enlightened, as someone here pointed out, there is no way to turn off the light until we die.

[induz]

craziness doesn't exist. lol..

[induz]

That's a good point and probably very true for me (at least) I won't speak for anyone else but Oh My Yes I have a huge ego.
Having an ego is so natural. Without it, there would be no point of living and what separates us from animals, well at least most non-mammals.
There is a price we pay for EVERYTHING we do. Even when you get out of bed, there is a risk that we could fall in the shower and break our neck or get hit by a car while walking on the sidewalk. But we take that risk because life would be pretty boring lying around in bed all day.
The price we pay by being an atheist, is ridicule and sometimes a sense of hopelessness like if we were put in a classroom full of deaf and mutes when we could hear and talk.
Being enlightened in an unenlightened world, is depressing at times and things don't make a lot of sense because the majority of people speak in the language of nonsense called religion.
But unfortunately, once you are enlightened, as someone here pointed out, there is no way to turn off the light until we die.

I don't think you understand what the term ego means.  We all have aggressive traits as an example, but this does not make excessive aggressiveness healthy.

[induz]

I agree and dis-agree at the same time. Like the documentary "religulous" pointed out, these beliefs do hurt others by propagating ignorance. My mother is a devoted Muslim regardless of my attempts (her own son) to try to enlighten her. But as my father said "You can't change stupid, no matter how hard you try". They must be willing to change and see the err of their ways first, and then, change their thinking their own way.
I miss him so much. I don't know why he had to die? He was my best companion. We used to shoot the shit on philosophy and religion for hours and I miss that very much.
I had a very educated, very enlightened agnostic father and an ignorant, superficial, superstitious, stupid and religious mother. Not a very good combination.
I asked my father on many occasions, what he saw in her, and never got a satisfactory response. Just that people always need something to keep them going
.

We could spend all day long discussing the Pain and Horrors religion has perpetuated upon mankind.  Yes - religion is very dangerous.  It's like some crazycrap  drug that waaay too many people took are are walking around all numb & starry eyed.  Stupid stuff really.

I believe that humans are naturally cruel.

[WitchSabrina]

That's a good point and probably very true for me (at least) I won't speak for anyone else but Oh My Yes I have a huge ego.
Having an ego is so natural. Without it, there would be no point of living and what separates us from animals, well at least most non-mammals.
There is a price we pay for EVERYTHING we do. Even when you get out of bed, there is a risk that we could fall in the shower and break our neck or get hit by a car while walking on the sidewalk. But we take that risk because life would be pretty boring lying around in bed all day.
The price we pay by being an atheist, is ridicule and sometimes a sense of hopelessness like if we were put in a classroom full of deaf and mutes when we could hear and talk.
Being enlightened in an unenlightened world, is depressing at times and things don't make a lot of sense because the majority of people speak in the language of nonsense called religion.
But unfortunately, once you are enlightened, as someone here pointed out, there is no way to turn off the light until we die.

I don't think you understand what the term ego means.  We all have aggressive traits as an example, but this does not make excessive aggressiveness healthy.

There's ego then there's aggression.  They *might* somewhat overlap but they are not interchangeable.

[Smartmarzipan]

Explain to me again....why do you want to be ignorant? Do you think that will make you happier?

Yes. Assuming one will not remember the past, I would rather be the stupid I was before 27.
Ignorance is really bliss if you don't remember the past.
But that's wishful thinking like the tooth ferry and the rest of the childish dreams and stories.
Since that isn't reality, I will have to suffer the consequences.
I once read that philosophers are all suffering from depression. I think it to be true. I don't like it anymore than you do, and tried to fight it, but lost.

Being ignorant again will only lead you into the same problems you had in the past.

It's time to look forward.

Also, I think you're misinformed that all philosophers are depressed and sad and think a world without religion/god is horrible. I feel better after dropping the ignorance, frankly. My life has never felt happier. Why do you think you can't be happy with your new-found knowledge? Why do you think people need fairy tales to be happy?

[jenluvsjere]

I remember feeling that way when I stepped foot into a church with my family after deciding I was an atheist. I thought, WOW this stuff really does sound insane! When I was a christian it all seemed so reasonable- largely because everyone else believed it. I think if a certain thought process serves a functional purpose to a person...if it helps them get by, then it seems perfectly reasonable. It's possible to convince yourself of a lot of crazy sounding things if it helps you survive or cope in some way. I don't think most religious people are crazy per se (although some really make me wonder). They have just accepted something that doesn't make sense as a result of cultural pressures. When confronted with inconsistencies they just dismiss it, and remember to have "faith."