Conversation With a Christian Theist

[Colanth]

His last point was that "all nonbelief is unreasonable." Go figure.

His nonbelief in Zeus is unreasonable?  Ooookkkkaaayyy.

I assume he'll become a reasonable theist and start believing in Odin immediately.

(Or was that, "All nonbelief in MY god is unreasonable"?)

[josephpalazzo]

His last point was that "all nonbelief is unreasonable." Go figure.

His nonbelief in Zeus is unreasonable?  Ooookkkkaaayyy.

I assume he'll become a reasonable theist and start believing in Odin immediately.

My last exchange:


josephpalazzo•36 minutes ago ?

I've spent all my life studying Relativity, Quantum Mechanics, Quantum Field theory and other related topics. But since I'm an atheist, I'm not interested in the truth because I have a vested interest in some "absurd position of not knowing the truth" and an attack on that becomes an attack on me?!? Great.

[Minimalist]

As a matter of fact, Joe, there is nothing at the beginning of the Iliad...

The Iliad

By Homer

Written 800 B.C.E

Translated by Samuel Butler

       Table of Contents

Book I      

Sing, O goddess, the anger of Achilles son of Peleus, that brought countless ills upon the Achaeans. Many a brave soul did it send hurrying down to Hades, and many a hero did it yield a prey to dogs and vultures, for so were the counsels of Jove fulfilled from the day on which the son of Atreus, king of men, and great Achilles, first fell out with one another.

And which of the gods was it that set them on to quarrel? It was the son of Jove and Leto; for he was angry with the king and sent a pestilence upon the host to plague the people, because the son of Atreus had dishonoured Chryses his priest. Now Chryses had come to the ships of the Achaeans to free his daughter, and had brought with him a great ransom: moreover he bore in his hand the sceptre of Apollo wreathed with a suppliant's wreath and he besought the Achaeans, but most of all the two sons of Atreus, who were their chiefs.

"Sons of Atreus," he cried, "and all other Achaeans, may the gods who dwell in Olympus grant you to sack the city of Priam, and to reach your homes in safety; but free my daughter, and accept a ransom for her, in reverence to Apollo, son of Jove."

On this the rest of the Achaeans with one voice were for respecting the priest and taking the ransom that he offered; but not so Agamemnon, who spoke fiercely to him and sent him roughly away. "Old man," said he, "let me not find you tarrying about our ships, nor yet coming hereafter. Your sceptre of the god and your wreath shall profit you nothing. I will not free her. She shall grow old in my house at Argos far from her own home, busying herself with her loom and visiting my couch; so go, and do not provoke me or it shall be the worse for you."

to indicate that Homer said he was writing fiction.

Homer and the Bible.  Equivalent piles of shit....but Homer is better written.

Boy that brings back some memories, in fact, I think thats about as far as I got in that book.

I think I waited for the movie.

[Colanth]

His last point was that "all nonbelief is unreasonable." Go figure.

His nonbelief in Zeus is unreasonable?  Ooookkkkaaayyy.

I assume he'll become a reasonable theist and start believing in Odin immediately.

My last exchange:


josephpalazzo•36 minutes ago ?

I've spent all my life studying Relativity, Quantum Mechanics, Quantum Field theory and other related topics. But since I'm an atheist, I'm not interested in the truth because I have a vested interest in some "absurd position of not knowing the truth" and an attack on that becomes an attack on me?!? Great.

You're reading his responses as if they're English, they're not, they're Christianlish.  In which language, "learning the truth exhibits a vested interest in not learning the truth" actually makes a lot of sense.  Don't ask me to explain it though - translated into English, it becomes Gibberish.

[josephpalazzo]

His nonbelief in Zeus is unreasonable?  Ooookkkkaaayyy.

I assume he'll become a reasonable theist and start believing in Odin immediately.

My last exchange:


josephpalazzo•36 minutes ago ?

I've spent all my life studying Relativity, Quantum Mechanics, Quantum Field theory and other related topics. But since I'm an atheist, I'm not interested in the truth because I have a vested interest in some "absurd position of not knowing the truth" and an attack on that becomes an attack on me?!? Great.

You're reading his responses as if they're English, they're not, they're Christianlish.  In which language, "learning the truth exhibits a vested interest in not learning the truth" actually makes a lot of sense.  Don't ask me to explain it though - translated into English, it becomes Gibberish.

Gibberish is right. He was saying that people in academia were not interested in the truth because they had invested their career in their entranched position - this coming from a person who believes in a book written by Bronze Age shepherds.

[WitchSabrina]

Gibberish is right. He was saying that people in academia were not interested in the truth because they had invested their career in their entranched position - this coming from a person who believes in a book written by Bronze Age shepherds.

I think that's rather the point - the undeniable faith to just *Believe*.   It's a Faith thing.  
When you speak to people who are blindly following a faith that makes No sense to You --- they can't understand why yooou don't get the "blind faith" part.  Because to them That's the whole point.

Oil and water, bud.  Oil and water.  Eyes Wide open and Eyes Wide Shut.

[Colanth]

Gibberish is right. He was saying that people in academia were not interested in the truth because they had invested their career in their entranched position - this coming from a person who believes in a book written by Bronze Age shepherds.

And supported by a group of people (the Church hierarchy) that's NOT invested in maintaining its entrenched position?

You misread him.  He was trying out his new comedy routine on you.

[La Dolce Vita]

I love how quickly theists who have learned debate tactics will jump on atheists for making a positive claim, (which, just for the record, you were not doing,) and yet can't seem to understand the fact that believing in any god is a positive claim.

Belief isn't a claim.  An agnostic theist isn't making any claims.  Other than that, though, you're right.  They tell you that their god exists and that it's just reality, not a claim.  When you reply that you don't accept their "reality" they say that you're making a positive claim.

I actually disagree with this. The definition of belief is the acceptance of something as true. If putting forward their belief, even if they specify that they don't know they are correct, they are still stating that they accept the position they are putting forth as true/fact.

For belief to not be a claim of fact (when presented) it simply cannot be a belief, but rather an idea they find probable (which is turn is also a claim, but then not of actuality, but probability). They can also say that it's an hypothesis they think has potential or an idea they find tempting - but I doubt a religious person would ever try to go there.

[Sleeper]

Did I mention Hank?

That guy kicked the shit out of me.

[josephpalazzo]

Gibberish is right. He was saying that people in academia were not interested in the truth because they had invested their career in their entranched position - this coming from a person who believes in a book written by Bronze Age shepherds.

And supported by a group of people (the Church hierarchy) that's NOT invested in maintaining its entrenched position?

You misread him.  He was trying out his new comedy routine on you.

I should have thought of that.  ](*,)

[GurrenLagann]

All theists are agnostic, which I've argued before, but I don't want to do that whole

You clearly never dealt with proponents of the Trancendental Argument! xD

[Colanth]

I actually disagree with this. The definition of belief is the acceptance of something as true.

I can believe in a god without that constituting a claim that I believe that the god objectively exists - which is the position of an agnostic theist.

If putting forward their belief, even if they specify that they don't know they are correct, they are still stating that they accept the position they are putting forth as true/fact.

The only position they're putting forth is that they believe in the god, not that they believe that the god objectively exists.

For belief to not be a claim of fact (when presented) it simply cannot be a belief

Sure it can.  I believe that coffee ice cream is disgusting.  That's not a claim of fact.

but rather an idea they find probable

I don't even find it probable that coffee ice cream is disgusting, I just believe that it is.  IOW, that's my opinion, or my belief.  It's an agnostic Christian's belief that God, if he exists, has certain properties, one of which may be that if you don't believe in him you burn in hell for all eternity when you die.