Started by Absurd Atheist, April 22, 2017, 04:41:17 PM
Quote from: Sorginak on April 22, 2017, 04:47:40 PMYour Object/Hazard argument seems to be more sociological in nature than philosophical, at least to me.
Quote from: Baruch on April 22, 2017, 11:24:52 PMI & Thou by Martin Buberhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_and_Thou
Quote from: Mike Cl on April 22, 2017, 06:58:54 PMI'd suggest all actions of humans can be thought of as mostly, if not always, selfish or self serving. I tell my wife, child, grandchild 'I love you." I want to be loved by them so I tell them that. Giving to those in need--it makes me feel so much better. All actions would include the thought it would benefit us as well.
Quote from: Absurd Atheist on April 23, 2017, 01:49:42 PMI agree on the egocentric nature of "humanity", and I mean egocentric in a neutral and not negative connotation. I'm not sure it's possible to escape egocentric-ism truly considering we're more or less locked into a singular point-of-view. Accepting this, my question is how do we moved on most effectively and minimize clash between people outside of our relationships who have no "selfish" reason to aid or at the very least live peaceably. Of course this is getting into social contract territory but I think it's still a valid question for today.
Quote from: Baruch on April 23, 2017, 04:26:39 PMAs long as people want "everything" and there is more than one person, then conflict is necessary. Politics is the way we peacefully divvy up power and wealth and fame ... when there is more than one competing interest. This gets socially modulated by the collective "us" vs "them". Per the idea of the UN, if we consider "us" not "us & them", then there will not be militant competition. But that takes a spiritual revolution .. I don't see secular ideology or scientific psychology getting us there.
Quote from: Mike Cl on May 14, 2017, 09:47:26 AMOh yeah, spiritual all the way--I mean all of the organized religions I know are, oh so peaceful!! The way of the spirit! God told me and so it is......as I slice your throat! What 'spirit' (which is a fiction people just love to 'believe' in!) will bring peace??? When and where has that happened???!!! Secular is the ONLY way peace will ever come to this planet. It is our only hope. If all the religions were to suddenly just disappear then we could have a shot at some actual peace. For peace to be real we have to have thought about it and using critical thinking figure it out. We will not get it by wishing for it or by seeking guidance from skydaddy/mommy or some 'spirit'. We will not 'believe' our way into peace.
Quote from: Baruch on May 14, 2017, 02:35:03 PMSpirituality isn't the same as religion.
Quote from: Baruch on May 14, 2017, 02:35:03 PM Per Darwin, I can rob, rape and kill you at any time, to maximize my chances of mating with your SO ... and if we are both fertile, I can produce offspring that can be used to replace any that you have produced.
Quote from: Baruch on May 14, 2017, 02:35:03 PM Per nature, there is no crime I can't commit, if it is in my short term interest to do so. No species, except by law of unintended consequences, ever looks out for the long term (rational law) including humans. If I haven't committed a crime against you, it is only because there hasn't been the motivation or opportunity ... not because it is contrary to my or your nature. By spiritual, I mean to act un-naturally, though as a tautology, you would deny that is even possible, because you will find some Darwinian rationalization as to why I should give money to the National Endowment for the Arts.