Marxism 101: Socialism and Communism

[Baruch]

Well, you kind of have to have people that know how to, you know, build things.  I'm not living in no dadgum teepee(no wifi).  There are legions and legions of parasites, however, they wear suits and have little colorful leashes around their necks.

Marx was happy for the State provided British Library and British Museum.  Parasite.

[etienne]

Alright, already........................humf...............you mean when I tell people to define what they are talking about, and then they do, I need to pay attention and read the definitions?????  Well, shit.  Do as I say and not as I do--remember????  Alright, one of these fine slow days, I'll watch those videos.    If I can read three Ayn Rand novels, I guess I can watch a few video's.

Ah, a Libertarian.  I have chunks of Libertarians in my stool.  In fact, I just kicked some Libertarian ass up yonder thar'.  Helps when you know what you are talking about, yeah, otherwise you are like a religionist debating, say, Christopher Hitchens, and none of us wants that...   

[etienne]

Marx was happy for the State provided British Library and British Museum.  Parasite.

Well, I think, if Marx hadn't grown up petit bourgeois, he may have liked to have had a practical skill, trade.  Well, writing is a skill, skilled labor, especially when you are writing the most profound works on the planet.  He wanted to teach in the University too, which is a skill.  Engels was the rich kid with all of daddy's industrial money--Marx was supported with that for a time.  Capitalist societies tend not to give most artists, musicians, writers much opportunity to make $, sooo...a guy's gotta eat. Mozart died @ 36 or so, a pauper with TB, only had a decent apt and $ for maybe 5 years of his adult life, as he was famous by that time.   But he ended up having to pawn everything off, you know, so he could pay some POS, mediocre mammal landlord.  How many billions have the parasite capitalists made and will continue to make off of Dead Mozart?  Which reminds me, Miles Davis was a gigolo for a short period, pay them bills.

The whole idea of Marx was to have an "intellectual(all around educated) proletariat".  Do the material work 4-6 hours a day, then chill...play guitar, paint pictures, go fishing, read good books, get to know your wife and kids and such.

[Baruch]

Well, I think, if Marx hadn't grown up in his social class, he may have liked to have had a practical skill, trade.  Well, writing is a skill, skilled labor, especially when you are writing the most profound works on the planet.  He wanted to teach in the University too, which is a skill.  Engels was the rich kid with all of daddy's industrial money--Marx was supported with that for a time.  Capitalist societies tend not to give most artists, musicians, writers much opportunity to make $, sooo...a guy's gotta eat.  Which reminds me, Miles Davis was a gigolo for a short period, pay them bills.

The whole idea of Marx was to have an "intellectual(all around educated) proletariat".  Do the material work 4-6 hours a day, then chill...play guitar, paint pictures, go fishing, read good books, get to know your wife and kids and such.

Yes, and Jefferson the slaver, wanted educated citizens, because democracy doesn't work unless we are all as smart as Socrates.  Yes, Marx's background, dad and grand-dad were rabbis .. like I said, parasites ;-)  The only true Maoist work is on a collective farm.  End all cities now!  See Cross Of Gold Speech by William Jennings Bryan.  It is coming to a post-apocalypse near you.

[etienne]

Yes, and Jefferson the slaver, wanted educated citizens, because democracy doesn't work unless we are all as smart as Socrates.  Yes, Marx's background, dad and grand-dad were rabbis .. like I said, parasites ;-)  The only true Maoist work is on a collective farm.  End all cities now!  See Cross Of Gold Speech by William Jennings Bryan.  It is coming to a post-apocalypse near you.

Of course all the clergy are parasites, only second in "bad" to the capitalist owning class.  I recently wrote a poem about the bad ol' clergy, I will post here soon.  But that's why they often get killed in socialist revolutions:  they just won't quit bein' bad and join the good guys. Sellin' "Gawd" has it's perks...for cross dressers.

Maoism was not exclusive to farming, obviously, and some some of those Maoist communes were way the fuck ahead of their time, almost "too groovy".

And if I'm not mistaken, you are sounding like a borderline "anarcho primitivist".  Have you read, "The Unabomber's Manifesto"?  Really good read. 

http://atheistforums.com/index.php?topic=11418.0

[Mike Cl]

Ah, a Libertarian.  I have chunks of Libertarians in my stool.  In fact, I just kicked some Libertarian ass up yonder thar'.  Helps when you know what you are talking about, yeah, otherwise you are like a religionist debating, say, Christopher Hitchens, and none of us wants that...   

Libertarian--yeah, I guess in part.  But then, not in other parts.  I don't know of a label that fits exactly.  Not republican (not the party), or democratic (not the party) or commie, or socialist, or capitalist, or............supply the philosophy or ism--not exactly.  So, what label do I want to use?  I don't know.  Generalist???  (But then, I only like some generals--hate Lee and love Grant).  Really don't care.  So, label me as you wish.  That in no way defines who or what I am.  And feel free to have for dinner anything or anyone you like so your stool will come out as you desire.  Don't care.  Up to you. 

[etienne]

Libertarian--yeah, I guess in part.  But then, not in other parts.  I don't know of a label that fits exactly.  Not republican (not the party), or democratic (not the party) or commie, or socialist, or capitalist, or............supply the philosophy or ism--not exactly.  So, what label do I want to use?  I don't know.  Generalist???  (But then, I only like some generals--hate Lee and love Grant).  Really don't care.  So, label me as you wish.  That in no way defines who or what I am.  And feel free to have for dinner anything or anyone you like so your stool will come out as you desire.  Don't care.  Up to you.

There are plenty of "generals" you can hook up with:  General Motors, General Electric, General Mills, General Auto Insurance, Dollar General, etc.  Funny, they are all capitalists, imagine that.  Well, that's the thing, there are only 2 sides to pick from in this lil ol' material world:  Capitalism or Socialism/Communism.  Das it.

As to me eating a Libertarian for lunch, see Reply #84 on this thread.  I feel strongly that as a minimum requirement, Libertarians should at least know what they stand for.

[etienne]

The "dumb commie" DPRK, with a "brutal, crazyman, thug, dictator"(democratically elected) and "no intellectuals" and "illiterate, starving people everywhere", somehow has figured out how to defend themselves against US imperialist threats, which they have, as a sovereign nation, every right to do:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtKgofH_Gvg

(US has ~115 bases in Japan, ~83 bases in S Korea, and many in northern Australia.  The DPRK has zero bases outside it's borders.

[etienne]

What kind of person engages in revolutionary activity? Is there a specific type?

There are different types, but they have certain characteristics in common. That’s why I quote theologian Reinhold Niebuhr when he talks about “sublime madness.”

I think that sublime madness â€" James Baldwin writes it’s not so much that revolutionaries have a vision, it’s that they are possessed by it. I think that’s right. They are often difficult, eccentric personalities by nature, because they are stepping out front to confront a system of power in a way that is almost a kind of a form of suicide. But in moments of extremity, these rebels are absolutely key; and that you can’t pull off seismic change without them.

And then there are all the everyday peasants...

Superb vid by Jason Unruhe(The Maoist Rebel) in the subject:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvyrhEq1MnE
(Quote from Chris Hedges,  http://www.salon.com/2015/06/04/we_are_in_a_revolutionary_moment_chris_hedges_explains_why_an_uprising_is_coming_%E2%80%94_and_soon/)

[Hydra009]

The "dumb commie" DPRK, with a "brutal, crazyman, thug, dictator"(democratically elected) and "no intellectuals" and "illiterate, starving people everywhere", somehow has figured out how to defend themselves against US imperialist threats, which they have, as a sovereign nation, every right to do

LOL.  Mass squalor and producing antiquated, albeit dangerous, military hardware are not mutually exclusive.



Care to take a couple guesses why this is the case?  And no, it's not because the DPRK is trying to cut its electric bill.

And North Korea's vaunted nukes, though dangerous, are nothing compared to the arsenals of literally any other nuclear power.



And finally, North Koreans have yet to successfully figure out "how to defend themselves against US imperialist threats".  By claiming that they did, you just hit a level of dumb and delusional that rarely gets expressed here.  Congrats.

North Korea would easily be wiped off the face of the Earth in any sort of military conflict.  Part of the reason why this hasn't happened already is because South Korea would undoubtedly suffer civilian losses from conventional artillery, not to mention WMD attacks.  Another part of the reason is that such an aggressive move would undoubtedly start a diplomatic row with China, though Chinese-DPRK relations have worsened lately.  Also, unlike other nations, the paucity of North Korea ironically protects it - an invader simply has nothing to gain.  So instead of risking conflict, the world's great powers let North Korea languish as a pariah state, isolated and starving, in the hopes that it eventually gives up its pathetic sabre-rattling and gets its act together so that it can rejoin the world community.  So far, no such luck.

[etienne]

LOL.  Mass squalor and producing antiquated, albeit dangerous, military hardware are not mutually exclusive.



Care to take a couple guesses why this is the case?  And no, it's not because the DPRK is trying to cut its electric bill.

And North Korea's vaunted nukes, though dangerous, are nothing compared to the arsenals of literally any other nuclear power.



And finally, North Koreans have yet to successfully figure out "how to defend themselves against US imperialist threats".  By claiming that they did, you just hit a level of dumb and delusional that rarely gets expressed here.  Congrats.

North Korea would easily be wiped off the face of the Earth in any sort of military conflict.  Part of the reason why this hasn't happened already is because South Korea would undoubtedly suffer civilian losses from conventional artillery, not to mention WMD attacks.  Another part of the reason is that such an aggressive move would undoubtedly start a diplomatic row with China, though Chinese-DPRK relations have worsened lately.  Also, unlike other nations, the paucity of North Korea ironically protects it - an invader simply has nothing to gain.  So instead of risking conflict, the world's great powers let North Korea languish as a pariah state, isolated and starving, in the hopes that it eventually gives up its pathetic sabre-rattling and gets its act together so that it can rejoin the world community.  So far, no such luck.

Haha, now you are an expert on the DPRK, but you just made my point.  The DPRK poses no threat to anyone, except maybe Micronesia, assuming they had any intention of attacking someone which they don't.

[Shiranu]

>mfw implying the soviet union and NK weren't and aren't absolute failures of states, or even communist

The DPRK poses no threat to anyone...

Yeah, except the millions of starving citizens, anyone who disagrees with the dictator, and South Korea. Just a few million people, no big deal.

I wondered how long it would take you to go full nutjob, which I wanted to lowkey elude to in my first post. I guess that question has been answered.

[etienne]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge#Intelligentsia

"In the 1920s and 1930s, 2,000 writers, intellectuals, and artists were imprisoned and 1,500 died in prisons and concentration camps. After sunspot development research was judged un-Marxist, twenty-seven astronomers disappeared between 1936 and 1938. The Meteorological Office was violently purged as early as 1933 for failing to predict weather harmful to the crops. But the toll was especially high among writers. Those who perished during the Great Purge include:"

I cut it off there because the rest of the section is just a long list of intellectuals accused of alleged subversive activities, some of which probably involve cursing the soil or casting a magic spell to make their torturer hurt them against their torturer's will.

Ok, let's assume the numbers you present are correct.  What was the death toll of the genocides of Native Americans, Africans by the British/US?  How many Southerners in the American Civil war?  Ok, we'll, you work on that one.  The deal is, in a so-comm revolution, it goes as I have described and when there are holdover capitalist apologists, and or militant religions who want to regain oppression of the People, those forces usually either leave or if they dont do that, get incarcerated or killed.  So what?  Thats the way the cookie crumbles.  they support a system that has genocided over a billion people since it's inception, so if they support that system within a so-comm society, they DO have problems, just as if Communists tried to take over the USA would and do have problems.  I repeat, it's CLASS WARFARE.  This is not to say so-comm is "anti-intellectual, it's not at all, and their results proof it.

Mao:  Revolutions and revolutionary wars are inevitable in class society, and without them it is impossible to accomplish any leap in social development and to overthrow the reactionary ruling classes and therefore impossible for the people to win political power.

"On Contradiction" (August1937), Selected Works, Vol. I, p. 344.*

Revolutionary war is an antitoxin that eliminates the enemy's poison, but also purges us of our own filth. Every just, revolutionary war is endowed with tremendous power and can transform many things or clear the way for their transformation. The Sino-Japanese war will transform both China and Japan; provided China perseveres in the War of Resistance and in the united front, the old Japan will surely be transformed into a new Japan and the old China into a new China, and people and everything else in both China and Japan will be transformed during and after the war.

"On Protracted War" (May 1938), Selected Works, Vol. II, p. 131.*

Every Communist must grasp the truth; "Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun."

"Problems of War and Strategy" (November 6, 1938), Selected Works, Vol. II, p. 224.

Seriously Hydra, why are you even coming to this thread, the side you've chosen is abundantly clear.  I dont see that you have much more to contribute here.  Don't you have a space shuttle to the outer reaches of Nebuli to catch?

[etienne]

>mfw implying the soviet union and NK weren't and aren't absolute failures of states, or even communist

Yeah, except the millions of starving citizens, anyone who disagrees with the dictator, and South Korea. Just a few million people, no big deal.

I wondered how long it would take you to go full nutjob, which I wanted to lowkey elude to in my first post. I guess that question has been answered.

Evidence?  No, you dont have any.  Also, you dont have to come to this thread, in fact I recommend you dont.  Thanks.

[etienne]

For the hard-of-thinking here.  Korea was a colony of what country from 1910-1947(end of WWII)?  Japan.  That's why there was this thing called the "Korean War".  Look it up.