For the First Time Since Franco, Far-Right Politicans Gain Power in Spain

[Shiranu]

To summarize; because the moderate-right People's Party failed so spectacularly at dealing with Catalunya's independence attempts, it lost it's 40-year control of the conservative vote. Moderate conservatives are now moving to the Citizen's Party (which isn't a big deal), but the Vox Party has seen exponential growth.

Their party platform is basically a Pr/internet shit post; fuck immigrants, fuck "feminazi's" (they want to repeal Spain's violence against women law because they feel it, "discriminates against one of the sexes"), we need a new Reconcista to expel the Muslims, gays are mentally ill, and so on...as well as believing Catalunya should be stripped of all it's autonomy (Catalunya was one of the bloodiest regions of the Spanish Civil War and Franco's purges and has always tried to maintain it's own identity and culture).

That said, the moderate-left is still the stronger faction in Spain, and the moderate-right is the second.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/apr/28/how-the-far-right-finally-gained-a-foothold-in-spain

Spanish exceptionalism â€" the country’s supposed immunity to the far-right parties that have seeped into mainstream European politics â€" has finally succumbed to the wounds it received last December.


Four months after picking up 12 seats in the Andalucían regional election, the upstart Vox party led by Santiago Abascal is to enter the national parliament, winning 24 seats in the congress of deputies and taking 10% of the vote.


Even a year ago, Vox’s breakthrough would have been unthinkable: in the last general election in June 2016, the party attracted a paltry 0.2% of the vote.

Despite Abascal’s histrionic calls for a “reconquest” of Spain â€" a reference to the long campaign against Moorish rule, which concluded in 1492 and also led to the expulsion of Spain’s Jews â€" his party’s success has less to do with immigration and borders than domestic politics.

I'm optimistic though; Spain has seen the worst of far-right politics with in many people's life time as well as having multiple regions which are staunchly anti-far-right politics due to how much they suffered under Franco. I don't see the radicals standing much of a chance of gaining complete power in Spain... but they certainly could still gain enough to really ruin people's lives.

[Baruch]

Time is still early ... Italexit, Franexit to come.  How will those impact the post-Soviet Euro-Communism?  There may yet even be Brexit ;-)  Will E German inspired tyranny prevail?  Will Germany be made to pay reparations to Greece?  Can Germany bring Poland, Czech Republic or Hungary to heel?

The bipolar stability of Europe, say post 1948 ... ended in 1991.

[Baruch]

"Spanish Election Ends With Hung Parliament, Forming New Government "Could Prove Challenging"" ... will it really be frozen?  Or will it be like Belgium recently, where they went for 589 days without an elected government (stuck legislature) ... both Belgium and Spain are monarchies.  This is not something the often reformulated Italian government could do.

It wasn't so long ago that Portugal, Spain and Greece were dictatorships at the same time.  And Italy/Germany not that long before that.  Quite a bit farther back when GB/Ireland was a dictatorship under Cromwell.  Remind me how ... how Europe is so superior to N America?

[Baruch]

A series on more recent Spanish history ... in 6 parts

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lu5f9hp0IP4

Very similar to France 1788-1792 ... and eventual military reaction, Franco in Spain, Napoleon earlier in France.

Shows how both anarchism and authoritarianism are failures.  Pragmatic centrism is the only way.

Of course anarcho-communists will disagree.

[Mr.Obvious]

Time is still early ... Italexit, Franexit to come.  How will those impact the post-Soviet Euro-Communism?  There may yet even be Brexit ;-)

Brexit seems to be a huge endorsement not to exit.
But no other country is even close to doing something as stupid as brexit.

[Baruch]

Brexit seems to be a huge endorsement not to exit.
But no other country is even close to doing something as stupid as brexit.

Belgium would have to exit from itself.  So I don't expect any understanding.  Of course we have had 2 Brexits in the US ... in 1775 and 1812.  We didn't have to elect any castrati MEPs.  Then we had a USexit ... but showed little reciprocal understanding when our own Yankee ox got gored.  Greece did try, but their EU quisling leader stopped it.

The underlying problem with GB is the thing, Brexit is just a symptom.  Nothing wrong that another Cromwell can't fix in a jiffy.  And if Republic of Ireland independence is a problem, then maybe Belgium should resume being the Spanish Netherlands, under the Hapsburgs.  Hence the particular relevance of the Spanish Civil War documentary ;-)

[Mr.Obvious]

Belgium would have to exit from itself.  So I don't expect any understanding.  Of course we have had 2 Brexits in the US ... in 1775 and 1812.  We didn't have to elect any castrati MEPs.  Then we had a USexit ... but showed little reciprocal understanding when our own Yankee ox got gored.  Greece did try, but their EU quisling leader stopped it.

The underlying problem with GB is the thing, Brexit is just a symptom.  Nothing wrong that another Cromwell can't fix in a jiffy.  And if Republic of Ireland independence is a problem, then maybe Belgium should resume being the Spanish Netherlands, under the Hapsburgs.  Hence the particular relevance of the Spanish Civil War documentary ;-)

No. You are the one who doesn't understand. There are, for example, a few parties in a few countries that opt for exits. In Italy, for example. Far right groups, usually. People say it seems more likely that such an exit will occur because far right groups are growing in these countries. But like in Belgium, post ww2, there is an agreement between the other parties never to form coalitions with these far right groups. Meaning they have to get over 50% of the votes. Something none are close to. Not even remotely. That's why they know they always will be opposition groups and exactly why they can make such imbecile, impossiblrd ruinous promises that seem good to the uneducated. They know they won't have to enact them.
There are no polls showing other countries having more people who wish to leave the EU either. Not over 50%. Not the one. The opposite in fact. In fact, eu-membership has gain in popularity since the brexit debacle.

But don't let facts and the actual politics stand in your way Baruch. By all means; say the European couldn't possibly understand European politics and go off on tangents about the political reality of more than a century ago.
If you just keep talking, the world is bound to become what you say it is. Just keep at it a little more.

[Baruch]

There are segments, in countries, that are unhappy with the current arrangements.  Label them how you want.  And perhaps even in Belgium (but my previous response I think was very funny and clever).  What should be done?  Either something or nothing.  What will be done?  Don't ask anyone to predict the future!

Now, I don't have any ill will toward any European, or any Brit or Belgian, of course.  Even if beer is NOT my favorite beverage.  A Riesling would be nice ;-)  The US benefits from its hegemony, as does Germany and China.

So what if Golden Dawn got enough power in Greece, to drive out all EU institutions and personnel.  Will you make war on Greece?  On GB?  What if it were a pure Trotskyite party instead?  Would that make any difference to the German/Belgian tyranny (mercantilism economics)?

On the Spanish Civil War ... by taking Spain into the EU, you make sure that the next Spanish civil war will be a European civil war.  Avoiding nationalism won't bring peace.  Meanwhile socialism will only last as long as Europe can sponge off someone else.

And having watched that documentary on the Spanish Civil War, I find it hard to choose between the Anarchists (nihilist), Monarchists (revanchist) or Republicans (socialist) ... because tragedy.  Historically, there was outside intervention in that case.  If there were a civil war in the EU, I think we can guarantee that Russia would intervene, and probably the US.

Meanwhile ... "Democratic Triumph For Catalan Separatists".  Neither Spain nor EU are democratic, they are all about helping the Spanish and German upper classes.  Nothing has changed since 1929 in Europe, except the bankruptcy of the economy is easier to hide.

In fact, like some people in the US who post here, you want the unwashed masses put back in their cages.  How European is that?  Maybe you can get that Hapsburg, Leopold the Hogmouth, cloned, and he can be the new ruler of the Spanish Netherlands?

[Mr.Obvious]

There are segments, in countries, that are unhappy with the current arrangements.  Label them how you want.  And perhaps even in Belgium (but my previous response I think was very funny and clever).  What should be done?  Either something or nothing.  What will be done?  Don't ask anyone to predict the future!

Now, I don't have any ill will toward any European, or any Brit or Belgian, of course.  Even if beer is NOT my favorite beverage.  A Riesling would be nice ;-)  The US benefits from its hegemony, as does Germany and China.

So what if Golden Dawn got enough power in Greece, to drive out all EU institutions and personnel.  Will you make war on Greece?  On GB?  What if it were a pure Trotskyite party instead?  Would that make any difference to the German/Belgian tyranny (mercantilism economics)?

On the Spanish Civil War ... by taking Spain into the EU, you make sure that the next Spanish civil war will be a European civil war.  Avoiding nationalism won't bring peace.  Meanwhile socialism will only last as long as Europe can sponge off someone else.

And having watched that documentary on the Spanish Civil War, I find it hard to choose between the Anarchists (nihilist), Monarchists (revanchist) or Republicans (socialist) ... because tragedy.  Historically, there was outside intervention in that case.  If there were a civil war in the EU, I think we can guarantee that Russia would intervene, and probably the US.

Meanwhile ... "Democratic Triumph For Catalan Separatists".  Neither Spain nor EU are democratic, they are all about helping the Spanish and German upper classes.  Nothing has changed since 1929 in Europe, except the bankruptcy of the economy is easier to hide.

In fact, like some people in the US who post here, you want the unwashed masses put back in their cages.  How European is that?  Maybe you can get that Hapsburg, Leopold the Hogmouth, cloned, and he can be the new ruler of the Spanish Netherlands?

You understand sarcasm, don't you?
I wasn't serious about you talking more crap actually changing the situation'.

Jesus christ, that's a frankenstein post.

[Baruch]

You understand sarcasm, don't you?
I wasn't serious about you talking more crap actually changing the situation'.

Jesus christ, that's a frankenstein post.

It's Dr Frankensteen!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxxSIX3fmmo

The false consciousness of Europeans (Igor) would be funny, if the results weren't so tragic ;-(

The German chancellor is Frau Blucher!  whinny!!

[Sal1981]

Traveling for a week to Barcelona on Tuesday. Hopefully it'll be peaceful, but the travelling agent painted quite the scary picture of accosting gypsies and pickpockets abound.

[Shiranu]

Traveling for a week to Barcelona on Tuesday. Hopefully it'll be peaceful, but the travelling agent painted quite the scary picture of accosting gypsies and pickpockets abound.

From all I've heard, the super touristy parts of Barcelona are in fact really terrible in terms of pickpocketry... which is weird, given how developed of city it is.

[Baruch]

Traveling for a week to Barcelona on Tuesday. Hopefully it'll be peaceful, but the travelling agent painted quite the scary picture of accosting gypsies and pickpockets abound.

Hope you have a great trip without incident.  Just don't read "For Whom The Bell Tolls" ;-)